https://tolkiengateway.net/w/index.php?title=Talk:Balrogs&feed=atom&action=historyTalk:Balrogs - Revision history2024-03-28T13:49:37ZRevision history for this page on the wikiMediaWiki 1.39.3https://tolkiengateway.net/w/index.php?title=Talk:Balrogs&diff=316871&oldid=prevLordoftheEarth at 14:49, 23 July 20202020-07-23T14:49:43Z<p></p>
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<tr><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>:I wouldn't read "all" literally. We don't know for sure if Durin's Bane was under Sauron's control, but probably it wasn't--Sauron could have much better use of such a deadly servant than having him/her roam the empty halls of Moria. Nor do we know whether any Balrogs besides Durin's Bane survived the War of Wrath. And we do know that Sauron did not come to control the dragons, for instance. Ultimately, there is too much uncertainty to conclude that the Balrogs ever served him after Morgoth's "death", and based on what we do know, it seems more likely that none ever did. [[User:Protospace|Protospace]] 05:05, 23 July 2020 (UTC)</div></td><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>:I wouldn't read "all" literally. We don't know for sure if Durin's Bane was under Sauron's control, but probably it wasn't--Sauron could have much better use of such a deadly servant than having him/her roam the empty halls of Moria. Nor do we know whether any Balrogs besides Durin's Bane survived the War of Wrath. And we do know that Sauron did not come to control the dragons, for instance. Ultimately, there is too much uncertainty to conclude that the Balrogs ever served him after Morgoth's "death", and based on what we do know, it seems more likely that none ever did. [[User:Protospace|Protospace]] 05:05, 23 July 2020 (UTC)</div></td></tr>
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<tr><td colspan="2" class="diff-side-deleted"></td><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="+"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">:Ok. Then we leave the article as it is. (I cannot entirely agree with dragons not under Sauron's sway: when his power grew again, Dragons and Orcs multiplied to great numbers and became severe threats to the Dwarves; since Gandalf feared Sauron could use Smaug, we can assume that the Enemy had done so in the past with a dragon other than Smaug).--[[User:LordoftheEarth|LordoftheEarth]] 14:49, 23 July 2020 (UTC)</ins></div></td></tr>
</table>LordoftheEarthhttps://tolkiengateway.net/w/index.php?title=Talk:Balrogs&diff=316843&oldid=prevProtospace: /* Balrogs as Allies or Servants of Sauron */2020-07-23T05:05:41Z<p><span dir="auto"><span class="autocomment">Balrogs as Allies or Servants of Sauron</span></span></p>
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<tr><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>:Ok, Tolkien's words are speculation nowadays. People can't draw conclusions from explicit material as if The Silmarillion is non-canon. I quote again: "And he gathered again under his government all the evil things of the days of Morgoth, that remained on earth or beneath it". (And are Balrogs not from this category? Or what are they.... fiery puppies?). "All" is an absolute word, with much significance. The entire section claiming that the number or Balrogs is related to Sauron is unsourced material and therefore speculation (it's true that Tolkien narrowed them to 7 at most, but the rest is your opinion). Your last point is wrong: Saruman, a Maia, was dominated by Sauron, a greater Maia, and became his servant; albeit one willing to cheat his master by getting the Ring (he is still a double-faced vassal nonetheless). Another editor's opinion?--[[User:LordoftheEarth|LordoftheEarth]] 09:55, 20 July 2020 (UTC)</div></td><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>:Ok, Tolkien's words are speculation nowadays. People can't draw conclusions from explicit material as if The Silmarillion is non-canon. I quote again: "And he gathered again under his government all the evil things of the days of Morgoth, that remained on earth or beneath it". (And are Balrogs not from this category? Or what are they.... fiery puppies?). "All" is an absolute word, with much significance. The entire section claiming that the number or Balrogs is related to Sauron is unsourced material and therefore speculation (it's true that Tolkien narrowed them to 7 at most, but the rest is your opinion). Your last point is wrong: Saruman, a Maia, was dominated by Sauron, a greater Maia, and became his servant; albeit one willing to cheat his master by getting the Ring (he is still a double-faced vassal nonetheless). Another editor's opinion?--[[User:LordoftheEarth|LordoftheEarth]] 09:55, 20 July 2020 (UTC)</div></td></tr>
<tr><td colspan="2" class="diff-side-deleted"></td><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="+"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;"></ins></div></td></tr>
<tr><td colspan="2" class="diff-side-deleted"></td><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="+"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">:I wouldn't read "all" literally. We don't know for sure if Durin's Bane was under Sauron's control, but probably it wasn't--Sauron could have much better use of such a deadly servant than having him/her roam the empty halls of Moria. Nor do we know whether any Balrogs besides Durin's Bane survived the War of Wrath. And we do know that Sauron did not come to control the dragons, for instance. Ultimately, there is too much uncertainty to conclude that the Balrogs ever served him after Morgoth's "death", and based on what we do know, it seems more likely that none ever did. [[User:Protospace|Protospace]] 05:05, 23 July 2020 (UTC)</ins></div></td></tr>
</table>Protospacehttps://tolkiengateway.net/w/index.php?title=Talk:Balrogs&diff=316748&oldid=prevLordoftheEarth at 09:55, 20 July 20202020-07-20T09:55:06Z<p></p>
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<tr><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>:That's speculation that might be pertinent in some part, but not as categorization or included in the infobox or main body of an article. Pretty sure Tolkien limited the number of Balrogs down to 7 precisely because if Sauron had even one under control, it would have been known. Also it seems so improbable that a Maia would serve another Maia. --[[User:LorenzoCB|LorenzoCB]] 16:28, 18 July 2020 (UTC)</div></td><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>:That's speculation that might be pertinent in some part, but not as categorization or included in the infobox or main body of an article. Pretty sure Tolkien limited the number of Balrogs down to 7 precisely because if Sauron had even one under control, it would have been known. Also it seems so improbable that a Maia would serve another Maia. --[[User:LorenzoCB|LorenzoCB]] 16:28, 18 July 2020 (UTC)</div></td></tr>
<tr><td colspan="2" class="diff-side-deleted"></td><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="+"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;"></ins></div></td></tr>
<tr><td colspan="2" class="diff-side-deleted"></td><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="+"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">:Ok, Tolkien's words are speculation nowadays. People can't draw conclusions from explicit material as if The Silmarillion is non-canon. I quote again: "And he gathered again under his government all the evil things of the days of Morgoth, that remained on earth or beneath it". (And are Balrogs not from this category? Or what are they.... fiery puppies?). "All" is an absolute word, with much significance. The entire section claiming that the number or Balrogs is related to Sauron is unsourced material and therefore speculation (it's true that Tolkien narrowed them to 7 at most, but the rest is your opinion). Your last point is wrong: Saruman, a Maia, was dominated by Sauron, a greater Maia, and became his servant; albeit one willing to cheat his master by getting the Ring (he is still a double-faced vassal nonetheless). Another editor's opinion?--[[User:LordoftheEarth|LordoftheEarth]] 09:55, 20 July 2020 (UTC)</ins></div></td></tr>
</table>LordoftheEarthhttps://tolkiengateway.net/w/index.php?title=Talk:Balrogs&diff=316692&oldid=prevLorenzoCB: /* Balrogs as Allies or Servants of Sauron */2020-07-18T16:28:54Z<p><span dir="auto"><span class="autocomment">Balrogs as Allies or Servants of Sauron</span></span></p>
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<tr><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>Balrogs were the servants of Morgoth in the Wars of Beleriand. After the destructive War of Wrath, we know that the remaining Demons of Might hid themselves at the roots of the earth, deep beneath the tunnels and caverns of the mountains. From the stories of the Wars of Middle-earth, amoung the agents and followers of Sauron are counted for sure: orcs, uruk-hai, half-trolls, trolls, bats, vampires, wargs, wolves, werewolves, wraiths, spectres, phantoms, fire-breathing dragons, fell beasts, great beasts, oliphaunts, wicked-dwarvers, evil men, crows... Balrogs are never explicitly mentioned in relation to Sauron. '''But after rereading 'Of the Rings of Power and the Third Age' in ''The Silmarillion'' I found this quote''' "And '''he gathered again under his government all the evil things of the days of Morgoth, that remained on earth or beneath it'''." This clearly indicates that there were some Balrogs (other than Durin's Bane) out there who followed Sauron, meaning they can be categorized as SERVANTS OF SAURON (with a partial affiliation in the infobox).--[[User:LordoftheEarth|LordoftheEarth]] 15:58, 18 July 2020 (UTC)</div></td><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>Balrogs were the servants of Morgoth in the Wars of Beleriand. After the destructive War of Wrath, we know that the remaining Demons of Might hid themselves at the roots of the earth, deep beneath the tunnels and caverns of the mountains. From the stories of the Wars of Middle-earth, amoung the agents and followers of Sauron are counted for sure: orcs, uruk-hai, half-trolls, trolls, bats, vampires, wargs, wolves, werewolves, wraiths, spectres, phantoms, fire-breathing dragons, fell beasts, great beasts, oliphaunts, wicked-dwarvers, evil men, crows... Balrogs are never explicitly mentioned in relation to Sauron. '''But after rereading 'Of the Rings of Power and the Third Age' in ''The Silmarillion'' I found this quote''' "And '''he gathered again under his government all the evil things of the days of Morgoth, that remained on earth or beneath it'''." This clearly indicates that there were some Balrogs (other than Durin's Bane) out there who followed Sauron, meaning they can be categorized as SERVANTS OF SAURON (with a partial affiliation in the infobox).--[[User:LordoftheEarth|LordoftheEarth]] 15:58, 18 July 2020 (UTC)</div></td></tr>
<tr><td colspan="2" class="diff-side-deleted"></td><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="+"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;"></ins></div></td></tr>
<tr><td colspan="2" class="diff-side-deleted"></td><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="+"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">:That's speculation that might be pertinent in some part, but not as categorization or included in the infobox or main body of an article. Pretty sure Tolkien limited the number of Balrogs down to 7 precisely because if Sauron had even one under control, it would have been known. Also it seems so improbable that a Maia would serve another Maia. --[[User:LorenzoCB|LorenzoCB]] 16:28, 18 July 2020 (UTC)</ins></div></td></tr>
</table>LorenzoCBhttps://tolkiengateway.net/w/index.php?title=Talk:Balrogs&diff=316689&oldid=prevLordoftheEarth: /* Balrogs as Allies or Servants of Sauron */ new section2020-07-18T15:58:21Z<p><span dir="auto"><span class="autocomment">Balrogs as Allies or Servants of Sauron: </span> new section</span></p>
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<tr><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>:The correct Sindarin plural of Balrog is unknown: it could be Belryg, Balryg, Belroeg or Balroeg. None of these is attested, while "Balrogs" is. -- {{User:Ederchil/sig}} 15:24, 23 April 2009 (UTC)</div></td><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>:The correct Sindarin plural of Balrog is unknown: it could be Belryg, Balryg, Belroeg or Balroeg. None of these is attested, while "Balrogs" is. -- {{User:Ederchil/sig}} 15:24, 23 April 2009 (UTC)</div></td></tr>
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<tr><td colspan="2" class="diff-side-deleted"></td><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="+"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;"></ins></div></td></tr>
<tr><td colspan="2" class="diff-side-deleted"></td><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="+"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">Balrogs were the servants of Morgoth in the Wars of Beleriand. After the destructive War of Wrath, we know that the remaining Demons of Might hid themselves at the roots of the earth, deep beneath the tunnels and caverns of the mountains. From the stories of the Wars of Middle-earth, amoung the agents and followers of Sauron are counted for sure: orcs, uruk-hai, half-trolls, trolls, bats, vampires, wargs, wolves, werewolves, wraiths, spectres, phantoms, fire-breathing dragons, fell beasts, great beasts, oliphaunts, wicked-dwarvers, evil men, crows... Balrogs are never explicitly mentioned in relation to Sauron. '''But after rereading 'Of the Rings of Power and the Third Age' in ''The Silmarillion'' I found this quote''' "And '''he gathered again under his government all the evil things of the days of Morgoth, that remained on earth or beneath it'''." This clearly indicates that there were some Balrogs (other than Durin's Bane) out there who followed Sauron, meaning they can be categorized as SERVANTS OF SAURON (with a partial affiliation in the infobox).--[[User:LordoftheEarth|LordoftheEarth]] 15:58, 18 July 2020 (UTC)</ins></div></td></tr>
</table>LordoftheEarthhttps://tolkiengateway.net/w/index.php?title=Talk:Balrogs&diff=248333&oldid=prevKingAragorn at 13:30, 10 June 20142014-06-10T13:30:54Z<p></p>
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<tr><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>I don't particularly like Steve Hidook's Balrog image. I'd like to replace it with an image by Daniel Govar or John Howe. Is there a system for changing images of popular entries? Thanks. --[[User:Ebakunin|Ebakunin]] 01:05, 30 May 2006 (EDT)</div></td><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>I don't particularly like Steve Hidook's Balrog image. I'd like to replace it with an image by Daniel Govar or John Howe. Is there a system for changing images of popular entries? Thanks. --[[User:Ebakunin|Ebakunin]] 01:05, 30 May 2006 (EDT)</div></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><br/></td><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><br/></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="−"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #ffe49c; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">[[Image:Steve Hidook - A Balrog.jpg|thumb|left|Steve Hidook]]</del></div></td><td colspan="2" class="diff-side-added"></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>[[Image:Daniel Govar - Balrog.jpg|thumb|left|Daniel Govar]]</div></td><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>[[Image:Daniel Govar - Balrog.jpg|thumb|left|Daniel Govar]]</div></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>[[Image:John Howe - Balrog 04.jpg|thumb|left|John Howe]]</div></td><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>[[Image:John Howe - Balrog 04.jpg|thumb|left|John Howe]]</div></td></tr>
</table>KingAragornhttps://tolkiengateway.net/w/index.php?title=Talk:Balrogs&diff=221534&oldid=prevKingAragorn Bot: Bot message: re-linked.2012-12-11T00:19:59Z<p>Bot message: re-linked.</p>
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<tr><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>::I'm leaving the movie image at the bottom, because it is clearly demarcated as a portrayal in an adaptation. The other Howe images were posted like they were authoritative Balrog images, in the middle of an argument about wings.--[[User:Barnikel|Barnikel]] 00:28, 5 June 2006 (EDT)</div></td><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>::I'm leaving the movie image at the bottom, because it is clearly demarcated as a portrayal in an adaptation. The other Howe images were posted like they were authoritative Balrog images, in the middle of an argument about wings.--[[User:Barnikel|Barnikel]] 00:28, 5 June 2006 (EDT)</div></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><br/></td><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><br/></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="−"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #ffe49c; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>:::I agree with Barnikel that the image from [[The Lord of the Rings<del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">: </del>The <del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">Motion Picture Trilogy</del>]] should be kept for the sake of all the movie-fans. While we also need to make sure the images at least remotely resemble a Balrog, I also think its important to at least display ''some'' images even though they may not be accurate, otherwise all our articles would be imageless save the ones drawn by [[J.R.R. Tolkien]] himself. Maybe if we list what is inaccurate about the image when displayed. That being said I'm fine with leaving the above images off of the article for now until we can find some more appropriate ones. Thanks for your input! --[[User:Hyarion|Hyarion]] 01:18, 5 June 2006 (EDT)</div></td><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="+"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>:::I agree with Barnikel that the image from [[The Lord of the Rings <ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">(film series)|''</ins>The <ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">Lord of the Rings'' (film series)</ins>]] should be kept for the sake of all the movie-fans. While we also need to make sure the images at least remotely resemble a Balrog, I also think its important to at least display ''some'' images even though they may not be accurate, otherwise all our articles would be imageless save the ones drawn by [[J.R.R. Tolkien]] himself. Maybe if we list what is inaccurate about the image when displayed. That being said I'm fine with leaving the above images off of the article for now until we can find some more appropriate ones. Thanks for your input! --[[User:Hyarion|Hyarion]] 01:18, 5 June 2006 (EDT)</div></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><br/></td><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><br/></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>::::Unfortunately Hyarion is right. I have yet to see an artist draw a balrog with no wings (debatable - wouldn't reject their image for that), about twice the height of a man (see Lost Tales 2), and the rest. John Howe's do look more beast-like than man-like. I have heard, however, than an image by Rob Alexander came close, though I can't confirm that. --[[User:Narfil Palùrfalas|Narfil Palùrfalas]] 07:53, 5 June 2006 (EDT)</div></td><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>::::Unfortunately Hyarion is right. I have yet to see an artist draw a balrog with no wings (debatable - wouldn't reject their image for that), about twice the height of a man (see Lost Tales 2), and the rest. John Howe's do look more beast-like than man-like. I have heard, however, than an image by Rob Alexander came close, though I can't confirm that. --[[User:Narfil Palùrfalas|Narfil Palùrfalas]] 07:53, 5 June 2006 (EDT)</div></td></tr>
</table>KingAragorn Bothttps://tolkiengateway.net/w/index.php?title=Talk:Balrogs&diff=112699&oldid=prevKingAragorn Bot: changing link to The Lord of the Rings: The Motion Picture Trilogy2010-07-02T18:20:18Z<p>changing link to <a href="/wiki/The_Lord_of_the_Rings:_The_Motion_Picture_Trilogy" class="mw-redirect" title="The Lord of the Rings: The Motion Picture Trilogy">The Lord of the Rings: The Motion Picture Trilogy</a></p>
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<tr><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>::I'm leaving the movie image at the bottom, because it is clearly demarcated as a portrayal in an adaptation. The other Howe images were posted like they were authoritative Balrog images, in the middle of an argument about wings.--[[User:Barnikel|Barnikel]] 00:28, 5 June 2006 (EDT)</div></td><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>::I'm leaving the movie image at the bottom, because it is clearly demarcated as a portrayal in an adaptation. The other Howe images were posted like they were authoritative Balrog images, in the middle of an argument about wings.--[[User:Barnikel|Barnikel]] 00:28, 5 June 2006 (EDT)</div></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><br/></td><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><br/></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="−"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #ffe49c; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>:::I agree with Barnikel that the image from [[<del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">Peter Jackson's </del>The Lord of the Rings]] should be kept for the sake of all the movie-fans. While we also need to make sure the images at least remotely resemble a Balrog, I also think its important to at least display ''some'' images even though they may not be accurate, otherwise all our articles would be imageless save the ones drawn by [[J.R.R. Tolkien]] himself. Maybe if we list what is inaccurate about the image when displayed. That being said I'm fine with leaving the above images off of the article for now until we can find some more appropriate ones. Thanks for your input! --[[User:Hyarion|Hyarion]] 01:18, 5 June 2006 (EDT)</div></td><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="+"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>:::I agree with Barnikel that the image from [[The Lord of the Rings<ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">: The Motion Picture Trilogy</ins>]] should be kept for the sake of all the movie-fans. While we also need to make sure the images at least remotely resemble a Balrog, I also think its important to at least display ''some'' images even though they may not be accurate, otherwise all our articles would be imageless save the ones drawn by [[J.R.R. Tolkien]] himself. Maybe if we list what is inaccurate about the image when displayed. That being said I'm fine with leaving the above images off of the article for now until we can find some more appropriate ones. Thanks for your input! --[[User:Hyarion|Hyarion]] 01:18, 5 June 2006 (EDT)</div></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><br/></td><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><br/></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>::::Unfortunately Hyarion is right. I have yet to see an artist draw a balrog with no wings (debatable - wouldn't reject their image for that), about twice the height of a man (see Lost Tales 2), and the rest. John Howe's do look more beast-like than man-like. I have heard, however, than an image by Rob Alexander came close, though I can't confirm that. --[[User:Narfil Palùrfalas|Narfil Palùrfalas]] 07:53, 5 June 2006 (EDT)</div></td><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>::::Unfortunately Hyarion is right. I have yet to see an artist draw a balrog with no wings (debatable - wouldn't reject their image for that), about twice the height of a man (see Lost Tales 2), and the rest. John Howe's do look more beast-like than man-like. I have heard, however, than an image by Rob Alexander came close, though I can't confirm that. --[[User:Narfil Palùrfalas|Narfil Palùrfalas]] 07:53, 5 June 2006 (EDT)</div></td></tr>
</table>KingAragorn Bothttps://tolkiengateway.net/w/index.php?title=Talk:Balrogs&diff=81319&oldid=prevEderchil: /* Plural of Balrog */2009-04-23T15:24:15Z<p><span dir="auto"><span class="autocomment">Plural of Balrog</span></span></p>
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<tr><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>==Plural of Balrog==</div></td><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>==Plural of Balrog==</div></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="−"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #ffe49c; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>Isn't Balrogs the anglicisation for the plural for Balrog? Shouldn't it correctly be called Balryg?</div></td><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="+"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>Isn't Balrogs the anglicisation for the plural for Balrog? Shouldn't it correctly be called Balryg? <ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">{{unsigned|Pinkkeith}}</ins></div></td></tr>
<tr><td colspan="2" class="diff-side-deleted"></td><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="+"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div> </div></td></tr>
<tr><td colspan="2" class="diff-side-deleted"></td><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="+"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">:The correct Sindarin plural of Balrog is unknown: it could be Belryg, Balryg, Belroeg or Balroeg. None of these is attested, while "Balrogs" is. -- {{User:Ederchil/sig}} 15:24, 23 April 2009 (UTC)</ins></div></td></tr>
</table>Ederchilhttps://tolkiengateway.net/w/index.php?title=Talk:Balrogs&diff=81318&oldid=prevPinkkeith at 15:15, 23 April 20092009-04-23T15:15:39Z<p></p>
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<tr><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><br/></td><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><br/></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>:::Yeah, it certainly seems like that to me, I think Jackson did a great job in avoiding the wings controversy. [[User:Ælfwine|Ælfwine228]] 15:37, 20 July 2008 (EDT)</div></td><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>:::Yeah, it certainly seems like that to me, I think Jackson did a great job in avoiding the wings controversy. [[User:Ælfwine|Ælfwine228]] 15:37, 20 July 2008 (EDT)</div></td></tr>
<tr><td colspan="2" class="diff-side-deleted"></td><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="+"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;"></ins></div></td></tr>
<tr><td colspan="2" class="diff-side-deleted"></td><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="+"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">==Plural of Balrog==</ins></div></td></tr>
<tr><td colspan="2" class="diff-side-deleted"></td><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="+"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">Isn't Balrogs the anglicisation for the plural for Balrog? Shouldn't it correctly be called Balryg?</ins></div></td></tr>
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