Talk:Song of the Mounds of Mundburg

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Latest comment: 30 October 2023 by Sonofcarc in topic The Song of the Mounds of Mundburg

Wasn't this poem written by Gleowine a mistrel of Theoden? --Dwarf Lord 01:51, 25 January 2007 (EST)

Nope. The LotR says "So long afterward a maker in Rohan said in his song of the Mounds of Mundburg:". Gléowine composed a later song - a tale of the Kings, of Eorl, and finally of Théoden himself. The finishing words are given:

Out of doubt, out of dark, to the day's rising
he rode singing in the sun, sword unsheating.
Hope he rekindled, and in hope he ended;
over death, over dread, over doom lifted
out of loss, out of life, unto long glory.

Quite beautiful, incidentally, and the quote is easily short enough that we can record it here. I can't do it now - but I should have time to do it about four hours from now. --Narfil Palùrfalas 09:00, 25 January 2007 (EST)

Oh that's right, thanks for reminding me. --Dwarf Lord 11:48, 25 January 2007 (EST)

The Song of the Mounds of Mundburg[edit source]

A box at the top of this page says This article describes a concept which is mentioned in J.R.R. Tolkien's works, but was never given a definite name. This is incorrect. The first section of Tolkien's original Index to LotR lists by title all the songs and verses found in the book. This poem is listed under the title "Song of the Mounds of Mundburg," which is thus canonical. Sonofcarc (talk) 02:47, 30 October 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Could you define what you mean with "Tolkien's original index"? There is J.R.R. Tolkien's Unfinished Index, there is the index published in the Ballantine edition of 1965 with an index of songs and verses that was compiled by Baillie Klass and there is the Allen & Unwin second edition of 1966 where J.R.R. Tolkien added some notes and translations and selected citations. I do not have access to any of these versions, so I can not double-check it. --Akhôrahil (talk) 15:16, 30 October 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
I am not familiar as you are with the history of the index as it appeared in editions prior to 2004. (Did Baillie Klass become Baillie Tolkien by marrying Christopher?) My oldest copy is a one-volume collectors' edition with the copyright 1965 by J.R.R. Tolkien, 1966 by Allen & Unwin. I also have a one-volume movie tie-in paperback where the first line on the very complicated copyright page is "This edition of The Lord of the Rings was first published in Great Britain by Harper Collins Publishers 1994. The first section of the index in each is headed "Songs and verses." They appear to be identical, though I did not check every entry. The section is subdivided, the first section is titles, the second is first lines. I lived with this index for decades, and am pretty familiar with it.
There is an error. The verse beginning "The road goes ever on and on" is called "Old Walking Song, The" in the index; where it has a single entry for all three occurrences (Bilbo leaving Bag-End, Frodo leaving Bag-End, Bilbo at Rivendell in "Many Partings") although no two are identical. But the entry also lists the song sung by Frodo just before meeting Elrond et al. in the last chapter, which is different. It is a variant of the second verse of the song sung in "Three is Company" (also just before meeting Elves), beginning "Upon the hearth the fire is red." This is indexed as "Walking Song, A" . Shippey points this out somewhere in RME.
Anyway, with regard to the issue under discussion, my view would be that the titles in this part of the index deserve formal recognition, whether the elder Tolkien ever saw it or not. But the point is obviously debatable if he didn't. I see Hammond and Scull chose to discard it, keeping only the index of first lines. The "Lament for the Rohirrim" is pretty generally known by that title, and TG has a page called that. Sonofcarc (talk) 18:13, 30 October 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
There's no need to start a talk-page for issues such as this: if you have concrete evidence that the stuff on a page is faulty, take initiative! If you end up being mistaken, it's really not that hard to undo an edit. - IvarTheBoneless (talk) 20:07, 30 October 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Thank you. As a newbie I do not want to be over-aggressive. I thought that perhaps changing a banner like this was reserved for some super-admin class. Sonofcarc (talk) 20:23, 30 October 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]