User talk:Woolly Mammoth: Difference between revisions

From Tolkien Gateway
Latest comment: 22 May 2015 by Mith in topic Infoboxes
(→‎Infoboxes: My view)
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Why are you removing infoboxes from articles? --{{User:Mith/sig}} 12:57, 11 May 2015 (UTC)
Why are you removing infoboxes from articles? --{{User:Mith/sig}} 12:57, 11 May 2015 (UTC)


[[User:Woolly Mammoth|Woolly Mammoth]] 13:01, 11 May 2015 (UTC)Because these characters are either developing concepts or concepts abandoned by Tolkien...and the matter of Canon vs. Non-canon is a pretty cloudy concept...
:[[User:Woolly Mammoth|Woolly Mammoth]] 13:01, 11 May 2015 (UTC)Because these characters are either developing concepts or concepts abandoned by Tolkien...and the matter of Canon vs. Non-canon is a pretty cloudy concept...


:That doesn't explain why Tolkien Gateway shouldn't give them an infobox. Please stop removing infoboxes from these characters. --{{User:Mith/sig}} 13:03, 11 May 2015 (UTC)
::That doesn't explain why Tolkien Gateway shouldn't give them an infobox. Please stop removing infoboxes from these characters. --{{User:Mith/sig}} 13:03, 11 May 2015 (UTC)


[[User:Woolly Mammoth|Woolly Mammoth]] Perhaps I was wrong...sorry...but I strive for consistency as much as possible (considering Tolkien), and there are plenty of characters that deserve "Non-canon" label...
:::[[User:Woolly Mammoth|Woolly Mammoth]] Perhaps I was wrong...sorry...but I strive for consistency as much as possible (considering Tolkien), and there are plenty of characters that deserve "Non-canon" label...
 
::::Just for your information - as per [[User:Mith#Current and Future Projects|my userpage]] and the [[Template:Claimed|claimed tags]] (that you've ignored) - I have spent years - ''literally'' years - sorting out all the infoboxes to a point where they are consistent with one another, contain the information we want to contain, and have appropriate colour schemes. Without exaggeration, I have gone through hundreds and hundreds of characters fixing and standardising their infoboxes (look through their article histories and at some point you will see an edit by me with the summary "Updated infobox").
 
::::I have reverted your edits on the [[Template:Men infobox|men infobox]] and [[Special:Log/protect|I have subsequently protected]] all the infobox templates I have made and amended. The reasons I disagree with your edit to add "nationality" to the infobox are as follows:
 
::::# It is inconsistent with other infoboxes;
::::# Nationality is not a physical description;
::::# I don't know if this is a language issue, but the idea of nationality as is understood in modernity is not a concept in Middle-earth;
::::# Notwithstanding all of the above, your usage of the nationality field is highly question. [http://tolkiengateway.net/w/index.php?title=Mat_Heathertoes&curid=2961&diff=268010&oldid=237138&rcid=278720 Being a Bree-lander is not a nationality]; [http://tolkiengateway.net/w/index.php?title=King_of_the_Dead&curid=1867&diff=268032&oldid=255939&rcid=278742 being an Oathbreaker, or a Wraith, is not a nationality]; [http://tolkiengateway.net/w/index.php?title=Gh%C3%A2n-buri-Gh%C3%A2n&curid=2650&diff=268031&oldid=266941&rcid=278741 being a Drúadan is not a nationality]. These are entirely nonsensical uses of the word "nationality".
 
::::You seem to be obsessed with constantly fiddling around with the infoboxes to the point where you've made dozen consecutive edits, all incredibly minor (and, in my view, are including ''far'' too much information in the "notablefor" field). I noticed, for example, two of the edits to [[Elmar]] were [http://tolkiengateway.net/w/index.php?title=Elmar&action=historysubmit&diff=268070&oldid=268069 changing the infobox from men to northmen] and [http://tolkiengateway.net/w/index.php?title=Elmar&action=historysubmit&diff=268095&oldid=268070 then changing it back again]! What is it that you are trying to achieve with this constant fiddling? This is not an antagonistic question: I need to understand what it is that you are actually seeking to achieve because at the moment you are very successfully frustrating other editors (evidenced by the number of people who have written on this talk page). --{{User:Mith/sig}} 10:36, 22 May 2015 (UTC)


==More on canon/non-canon==
==More on canon/non-canon==

Revision as of 10:36, 22 May 2015

Welcome!

Hello Henry, and welcome to Tolkien Gateway! I hope you like the place and choose to join our work. Here are a few good links for newcomers:

I hope you enjoy editing here and we look forward to your future edits. By the way, you can sign your name on Talk and vote pages using three tildes, like this: ~~~. Four tildes (~~~~) produces your name and the current date. If you have any questions, see the help pages, add a question to the Council forums, join our chat or ask me on my talk page. Keep up the great work!

-- Mith (Talk/Contribs/Edits) 23:43, 25 December 2014 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Images

Please only upload images if you include artist information and we have permission from said artist. See here for a full list. --Ederchil (Talk/Contribs/Edits) 11:04, 10 May 2015 (UTC)Reply[reply]


Sources

When you change data, always include a source. As specific as possible. Also, since we don't know birthdays, age at death can be 1 year apart. --Ederchil (Talk/Contribs/Edits) 21:32, 10 May 2015 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Infoboxes

Why are you removing infoboxes from articles? --Mith (Talk/Contribs/Edits) 12:57, 11 May 2015 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Woolly Mammoth 13:01, 11 May 2015 (UTC)Because these characters are either developing concepts or concepts abandoned by Tolkien...and the matter of Canon vs. Non-canon is a pretty cloudy concept...Reply[reply]
That doesn't explain why Tolkien Gateway shouldn't give them an infobox. Please stop removing infoboxes from these characters. --Mith (Talk/Contribs/Edits) 13:03, 11 May 2015 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Woolly Mammoth Perhaps I was wrong...sorry...but I strive for consistency as much as possible (considering Tolkien), and there are plenty of characters that deserve "Non-canon" label...
Just for your information - as per my userpage and the claimed tags (that you've ignored) - I have spent years - literally years - sorting out all the infoboxes to a point where they are consistent with one another, contain the information we want to contain, and have appropriate colour schemes. Without exaggeration, I have gone through hundreds and hundreds of characters fixing and standardising their infoboxes (look through their article histories and at some point you will see an edit by me with the summary "Updated infobox").
I have reverted your edits on the men infobox and I have subsequently protected all the infobox templates I have made and amended. The reasons I disagree with your edit to add "nationality" to the infobox are as follows:
  1. It is inconsistent with other infoboxes;
  2. Nationality is not a physical description;
  3. I don't know if this is a language issue, but the idea of nationality as is understood in modernity is not a concept in Middle-earth;
  4. Notwithstanding all of the above, your usage of the nationality field is highly question. Being a Bree-lander is not a nationality; being an Oathbreaker, or a Wraith, is not a nationality; being a Drúadan is not a nationality. These are entirely nonsensical uses of the word "nationality".
You seem to be obsessed with constantly fiddling around with the infoboxes to the point where you've made dozen consecutive edits, all incredibly minor (and, in my view, are including far too much information in the "notablefor" field). I noticed, for example, two of the edits to Elmar were changing the infobox from men to northmen and then changing it back again! What is it that you are trying to achieve with this constant fiddling? This is not an antagonistic question: I need to understand what it is that you are actually seeking to achieve because at the moment you are very successfully frustrating other editors (evidenced by the number of people who have written on this talk page). --Mith (Talk/Contribs/Edits) 10:36, 22 May 2015 (UTC)Reply[reply]

More on canon/non-canon

The Tolkien Gateway editors decided some years ago that we should scrap the note about "non-canon" in articles about concepts appearing the works by Tolkien, since, as you note above, canonicity is a cloudy concept. It was decided that it should be enough to provide references and a note if Tolkien explicitly abandoned/changed the concept in later writings (and then the readers can decide for themselves how "canonical" a certain concept is).--Morgan 16:25, 11 May 2015 (UTC)Reply[reply]


Categories

When added categories to a page, can you make sure you don't include a space. i.e. [[Category:Hobbits]] instead of [[Category: Hobbits]]. Cheers. --Mith (Talk/Contribs/Edits) 08:14, 13 May 2015 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Woolly Mammoth 08:15, 13 May 2015 (UTC) Already done that!Reply[reply]

You've just done it again! Please stop. --Mith (Talk/Contribs/Edits) 09:10, 13 May 2015 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Category:Characters

The category "Characters" is a top-category; a character should only be placed here if there's not a suitable sub-category.--Morgan 08:25, 13 May 2015 (UTC)Reply[reply]

My bot has just sorted this out. --Mith (Talk/Contribs/Edits) 08:51, 13 May 2015 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Merging

Hello and welcome. Please note that merging does not mean just removing content from article A and replacing it with a redirect to article B. Merging means incorporating and assimilating information from A to B so that it's not lost. Of course mergeable articles repeat almost identical information, but sometimes the deletable article contains information not repeated elsewhere. For example, when you attempted to merge Herucalmo and Tar-Anducal, you missed some information, like the etymology of the name "Herucalmo". I am going to check the redirects to make sure that nothing was missed. Sage 09:36, 14 May 2015 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Please just keep in mind that the wiki here has some well-established culture and mentality. There are and will be many things to be improved, corrected and tidied, but otherwise things represent precedent decisions or policies. If you aren't experienced in wiki editing I suggest you be more modest with your edits until you get a better grasp of the things. I understand your enthusiasm, but when you are fresh somewhere, the last thing you want is starting a massive "tide-up". You are bound to make mistakes. I've also fell for it when I joined here, and this happens from time to time. It's ok to make some occasional edits and learn by trial and error, but when you try to "tide-up" whole groups of articles you force others to try and catch up with your edits. Please try to tone down and don't rely on trial and error. Sage 11:10, 14 May 2015 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Can I just re-emphasise Sage's message. You have made over a thousand edits in just a few days but many of them have been in contravention of the established norms of this wiki, and some have mistakes. Keeping track of everything you're doing is incredibly difficult. Could you please slow down and take some time to learn how we operate? --Mith (Talk/Contribs/Edits) 07:25, 15 May 2015 (UTC)Reply[reply]
I apologize for your trouble. I'll try to slow down a bit, as you have said, but mistakes I do are mainly due to my overt hastiness. And I have zero tolerance for inconsistency. Woolly Mammoth 08:11, 15 May 2015 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Please consider opening a discussion before resolving the inconsistencies yourself. And if hastiness causes you make mistakes, try to improve the quality of your edits, not your speed or amount. Sage 15:18, 15 May 2015 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Moving pages

Do not move pages without discussion. --Ederchil (Talk/Contribs/Edits) 16:14, 14 May 2015 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Woolly Mammoth 16:20, 14 May 2015 (UTC) We're discussing it now. That page is contradicting itself (judging by the content)!Reply[reply]

Disputed canon

Please, stop putting "noncanon" tags to the articles that are based on Tolkien's writings, whether they are from his earliest writings, abandoned concepts, etc. As an administrator you should know little better than that.

A much better approach would be to put a "Disputedcanon" tag for such matters. Woolly Mammoth 23:14, 15 May 2015 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Can you name me one person or organisation who regards Trotter as canon? --Mith (Talk/Contribs/Edits) 08:54, 17 May 2015 (UTC)Reply[reply]