Tolkien Gateway:Meetings/1 August 2010/Transcript
[2010-08-01 19:53:21] <mithrennaith> Hi!
[2010-08-01 19:58:35] <KingAragorn> hi mithrennaith :)
[2010-08-01 19:58:50] <Morgan> hello
[2010-08-01 19:59:44] <KingAragorn> hello again Morgan :)
[2010-08-01 19:59:54] <Morgan> :)
[2010-08-01 19:59:57] <KingAragorn> hopefully Hyarion is here
[2010-08-01 20:00:10] <Morgan> Let's see - Hello Hyarion?
[2010-08-01 20:01:13] <Morgan> I believe Hyarion's apparent presence is just a by-product of being logged in to the IRC all the time...
[2010-08-01 20:02:04] <mithrennaith> I think so, yes.
[2010-08-01 20:02:24] <mithrennaith> Hello KingAragorn, hello Morgan.
[2010-08-01 20:02:32] <Morgan> thanks ;)
[2010-08-01 20:03:12] <KingAragorn> it's Hyarion2 we should be addressing ;)
[2010-08-01 20:03:47] <Morgan> Should we get started? I mean, there's not much we can discuss since no admins are present
[2010-08-01 20:04:30] <Morgan> Sorry to hurry things up - I expect my wife to come home pretty soon! ;)
[2010-08-01 20:04:44] <KingAragorn> ok let's go through what we can without Hyarion2
[2010-08-01 20:04:55] <KingAragorn> "Discussion of a prioritised list for extension installation" - was my suggestion for discussion
[2010-08-01 20:05:01] <mithrennaith> I only just noticed that a meeting was scheduled, as it was not mentioned or linked on the Meetings page.
[2010-08-01 20:05:42] <mithrennaith> I've remedied that, I don’t know how long it has been mentioned on the Community Portal page.
[2010-08-01 20:05:44] <KingAragorn> yes, I hastily made the page - then the server died
[2010-08-01 20:06:00] <mithrennaith> Btw, was the meeting on 25 July held, or cancelled?
[2010-08-01 20:06:08] <KingAragorn> postponed until now
[2010-08-01 20:06:09] <mithrennaith> Oh, I see.
[2010-08-01 20:06:20] <Morgan> Hyarion was present then, right?
[2010-08-01 20:06:26] <KingAragorn> yeah, just me and him
[2010-08-01 20:06:32] <Morgan> I happened to be logged in, but I couldn't attend
[2010-08-01 20:06:45] <Morgan> 'twas my dear wife again...
[2010-08-01 20:07:19] <mithrennaith> Ah. So, do we mark it on the Meetings page as cancelled, or postponed, or do we remove it there altogether (and perhaps also delete the page)?
[2010-08-01 20:07:40] <KingAragorn> ok, let's discuss what extensions we actually want first of all, then prioritise
[2010-08-01 20:07:58] <Morgan> Okay, at least we can be of some help on that, perhaps
[2010-08-01 20:08:04] <Morgan> But I'm no tech guy ;)
[2010-08-01 20:08:24] <KingAragorn> # Google Maps for Arda
[2010-08-01 20:08:24] <KingAragorn> # StringFunctions Extension
[2010-08-01 20:08:24] <KingAragorn> # Who's Online
[2010-08-01 20:08:24] <KingAragorn> # Tengwar generator
[2010-08-01 20:08:25] <KingAragorn> Any others that you want?
[2010-08-01 20:08:57] <KingAragorn> brb...
[2010-08-01 20:09:02] <mithrennaith> Incidentally, I didn’t register for last week’s meeting, as I was not sure I could attend.
[2010-08-01 20:09:02] <mithrennaith> And when I managed to get home, no-one was there in the chat :)
[2010-08-01 20:09:02] <mithrennaith> Not really a tech guy either - I have no great knowledge of extensions.
[2010-08-01 20:09:06] <Morgan> not that I can think of
[2010-08-01 20:09:17] <Morgan> Tengwar generator is important, of course
[2010-08-01 20:09:36] <mithrennaith> I notice the forum isn’t working properly, I wonder whether that is because of one or two missing extensions.
[2010-08-01 20:09:45] <Morgan> I would say more important than, e.g., Who's online
[2010-08-01 20:09:58] <mithrennaith> Agree with Morgan.
[2010-08-01 20:10:13] <Morgan> Is the forum an extension, KingA?
[2010-08-01 20:10:32] <Hyarion2> hi guys, sorry, just finishing up a couple other things, I should be back in 10mins
[2010-08-01 20:10:49] <Morgan> :D Welcome!!!
[2010-08-01 20:11:05] <mithrennaith> Good to see you, Hyarion2!
[2010-08-01 20:11:15] <Morgan> Do you have this expression in English: "Speaking of the trolls"?
[2010-08-01 20:11:44] <mithrennaith> In dutch we say "Speaking of the Devil", I think that goes in English as well.
[2010-08-01 20:12:08] <Morgan> Trolls is more arda-nesque! ;)
[2010-08-01 20:12:19] <mithrennaith> Should we then postpone tech discussion till Hyarion is fully there?
[2010-08-01 20:12:26] <Morgan> +1
[2010-08-01 20:18:31] <Morgan> ..
[2010-08-01 20:21:19] <mithrennaith> I think KA and Hyarion silently agree ...
[2010-08-01 20:21:27] <Morgan> :)
[2010-08-01 20:21:34] <mithrennaith> But the 10 min have passed now ...
[2010-08-01 20:21:43] -->| Theoden1 (60eb9853@TG-486CBC8.mibbit.com) has joined #Wiki
[2010-08-01 20:21:44] =-= Mode #Wiki +h Theoden1 by ChanServ
[2010-08-01 20:21:56] <Morgan> hi theoden!
[2010-08-01 20:21:56] <mithrennaith> Hello Theoden!
[2010-08-01 20:22:19] <Theoden1> made it in, batt issues hindered
[2010-08-01 20:22:20] <Morgan> Is KA still here?
[2010-08-01 20:22:33] <Theoden1> he's got some connections prob
[2010-08-01 20:22:53] <Morgan> Theoden: Hyarion just joined in too, but will be back soon
[2010-08-01 20:22:56] <Theoden1> i'm on the road with a new laptop battery
[2010-08-01 20:23:07] <Morgan> We sort of agreed to wait until he's back
[2010-08-01 20:23:10] <Theoden1> whats up for discussion?
[2010-08-01 20:23:20] <Morgan> Mostly tech stuff
[2010-08-01 20:23:32] <Morgan> Like the stability of the server, image upload, extensions, etc
[2010-08-01 20:23:39] <Theoden1> i've got about 20-30 min of batt power
[2010-08-01 20:24:01] <Theoden1> KA, you out there?
[2010-08-01 20:24:21] <Morgan> I've got like 20-30 min before my wife comes home ;) Then she will not let me chat here, you know
[2010-08-01 20:24:58] <Theoden1> why?
[2010-08-01 20:25:12] <Theoden1> she hates TG?
[2010-08-01 20:25:16] <KingAragorn> ok I'm back
[2010-08-01 20:25:27] <Morgan> She thinks I'm a Tolkien nerd ;)
[2010-08-01 20:25:31] <Theoden1> you have returned- again
[2010-08-01 20:25:41] <mithrennaith> Right. Hyarion2, are you ready?
[2010-08-01 20:26:10] <Hyarion2> yea
[2010-08-01 20:26:19] =-= Hyarion2 is now known as Hyarion
[2010-08-01 20:26:25] <Theoden1> start talkin before my batt goes
[2010-08-01 20:26:33] <Morgan> :D
[2010-08-01 20:27:10] <KingAragorn> ok #1: Solving the image upload problem. Perhaps not much to discuss (and hopefully it will be fixed before the meeting). --Morgan
[2010-08-01 20:27:16] <Hyarion> yea, tech stuff, still working on everything, unfortunately not much of an update.
[2010-08-01 20:27:35] <Theoden1> what causes the prob?
[2010-08-01 20:27:53] <Morgan> Is difficult to predict when it will be solved? (is there something we can do to help?)
[2010-08-01 20:27:57] <Morgan> Is it...
[2010-08-01 20:28:05] <Hyarion> before anything else I want to fix the stability issues, still not sure what is causing it so it is taking a while to pinpoint
[2010-08-01 20:28:05] <KingAragorn> ok, but the most serious problem is that the server keeps crashing
[2010-08-01 20:29:01] <Hyarion> something just causes it to go into an infinite loop and consume all the memory, it did the same thing on the old server, it seemed to stop happening when I disabled all the extensions and blocked any bots from indexing the site, so I'm trying that again to pinpoint the specific issue
[2010-08-01 20:29:38] <Morgan> Anyhow, it's great to hear that work is being done
[2010-08-01 20:30:09] <mithrennaith> Indeed.
[2010-08-01 20:30:13] <Hyarion> frustrating at random it is, and of course it usually happens after I go to sleep
[2010-08-01 20:30:20] <Hyarion> how random*
[2010-08-01 20:30:35] <mithrennaith> Murphy ...
[2010-08-01 20:31:05] <Hyarion> :)
[2010-08-01 20:31:56] <Morgan> Hyarion: are we talking time right now from you working on the stability/configuration? If so, I wouldn't mind postponing the meeting, since the overall issue of course is the server problems.
[2010-08-01 20:31:56] <KingAragorn> do you only allow certain search engines to index the site?
[2010-08-01 20:32:05] <Morgan> talking=taking
[2010-08-01 20:33:17] <Hyarion> KingAragorn, no, normally, and for almost all websites, indexing is fine but it lightens the load on the server if we block it so we can pinpoint what's causing it, it may just be some specific page causes the loop, or maybe some extensions
[2010-08-01 20:33:43] <Hyarion> but everything worked fine and no changes were made when it started occurring a few months ago so I think it is an external factor
[2010-08-01 20:34:10] <Morgan> Hm
[2010-08-01 20:34:11] <mithrennaith> agree somewhat with Morgan - this is the biggest problem now and Hyarion needs to solve it. It won’t do any good having someone else working on it too (if given access), because you can’t see whose work is having what effect.
[2010-08-01 20:35:54] <mithrennaith> Hope you won’t mind me putting it that way, Hyarion.
[2010-08-01 20:36:06] <Hyarion> couldn't have said it better myself.
[2010-08-01 20:37:04] <Theoden1> ok
[2010-08-01 20:37:14] <mithrennaith> Well, until you find the cause, nothing much more can be said on this matter.
[2010-08-01 20:37:32] <Morgan> True - if there are other issues to discuss, we should move on
[2010-08-01 20:37:47] <mithrennaith> Move to next point, or adjourn all tech to next meeting?
[2010-08-01 20:38:29] <Morgan> It seemed to me like most points were quite techy
[2010-08-01 20:39:02] <KingAragorn> is there any purpose to the J.R.R. Tolkien Encyclopedia Portal anymore?
[2010-08-01 20:39:31] <Morgan> where is that to be found?
[2010-08-01 20:39:32] <mithrennaith> Maybe Hyarion could explain what was the intention with that
[2010-08-01 20:40:11] <mithrennaith> Morgan, just click the link in the agenda.
[2010-08-01 20:40:13] <Hyarion> we could probably get rid of it, it was when we were working with the JRRT Encyclopedia editors.
[2010-08-01 20:40:17] <Theoden1> I'm melting, I mean my batt's melting...
[2010-08-01 20:40:21] <KingAragorn> just wondering as it gets its own namespace and everything
[2010-08-01 20:40:34] <KingAragorn> ah I see
[2010-08-01 20:40:49] <Theoden1> do we do anything with them now?
[2010-08-01 20:40:56] <Theoden1> the editors
[2010-08-01 20:41:02] <Morgan> Was that the JRRTE as in the publication by Drout et al
[2010-08-01 20:41:32] <Morgan> I'll try to find the link, sorry
[2010-08-01 20:41:37] <KingAragorn> http://tolkiengateway.net/wiki/JRRTE:Main_Page
[2010-08-01 20:41:55] <KingAragorn> I believe so
[2010-08-01 20:41:58] <Hyarion> Morgan, yea
[2010-08-01 20:42:20] <mithrennaith> So, are we still doing anything with Drout and Co.
[2010-08-01 20:42:27] <Morgan> Really? Wow, I had totally missed that
[2010-08-01 20:43:04] <Hyarion> mithrennaith, no, not anymore, it never really got beyond the initial idea phase
[2010-08-01 20:43:51] <Theoden1> so it never got off the ground
[2010-08-01 20:44:17] <mithrennaith> Yet, I think there is a need for it.
[2010-08-01 20:44:29] <Morgan> how do you mean?
[2010-08-01 20:44:55] <mithrennaith> I once found what seems to be a more or less official JRRT Encyclopedia site, ..
[2010-08-01 20:45:08] <mithrennaith> .. but I could not find any errata and addenda there.
[2010-08-01 20:45:34] <mithrennaith> The issue is that the JRRT Enc. was produced rather badly, ..
[2010-08-01 20:45:42] <mithrennaith> .. and many errors remain.
[2010-08-01 20:46:01] <Morgan> Interesting, again, I wasn't aware of this
[2010-08-01 20:46:12] <mithrennaith> Sometimes articles are referenced that turn out not to exist.
[2010-08-01 20:46:26] <Morgan> You know, you tend to "trust" paper publications
[2010-08-01 20:46:34] <mithrennaith> Drout has stated on his blog that he is unhappy with this, ..
[2010-08-01 20:46:43] <Morgan> Like the recent discussion I had over at lotrPlaza
[2010-08-01 20:47:09] <mithrennaith> .. and even that he would like errata to be put somewhere, ..
[2010-08-01 20:47:23] <mithrennaith> .. but I don’t think they ever got anywhere.
[2010-08-01 20:47:50] <mithrennaith> I think it was from his blog that the ‘official’ site was pointed at, ..
[2010-08-01 20:48:23] <Morgan> We could at least start by doing something similar to my project at http://tolkiengateway.net/wiki/%C3%85ke_Bertenstam ...
[2010-08-01 20:48:30] <mithrennaith> .. but as far as I could tell that doesn’t have them either.
[2010-08-01 20:49:21] |<-- Theoden1 has left irc.tolkiengateway.net (Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client)
[2010-08-01 20:49:54] <Morgan> ...perhaps include a corrigenda to the JRRTE article at TG
[2010-08-01 20:50:04] <Morgan> I mean, start working on such a corrigenda
[2010-08-01 20:50:07] <mithrennaith> Hyarion, any reason why we didn’t get anywhere with Drout & co.?
[2010-08-01 20:52:53] <mithrennaith> Am I still on?
[2010-08-01 20:53:09] <Morgan> yes, I believe
[2010-08-01 20:53:16] <KingAragorn> yup
[2010-08-01 20:53:36] <mithrennaith> Just that last time my connection went without me being any the wiser ..
[2010-08-01 20:53:53] <Morgan> happened to me also ;)
[2010-08-01 20:54:01] <mithrennaith> .. I sat there waiting for reply for fifteen minutes while the meeting went on ...
[2010-08-01 20:54:12] <Morgan> ;D
[2010-08-01 20:54:44] <mithrennaith> I'm trying to find that JRRT Encycl. site I was talking about, but I’m being distracted.
[2010-08-01 20:55:10] <Morgan> yeah, I would like to see that (to create an external link on the article)
[2010-08-01 20:58:02] <KingAragorn> in the mean time, let's discuss Portals in general,
[2010-08-01 20:58:10] <Morgan> Sure
[2010-08-01 20:58:17] <KingAragorn> should we move them to a 'Portal:' namespace like other wikis?
[2010-08-01 20:58:35] <Morgan> Explain more, please
[2010-08-01 20:58:46] <mithrennaith> Advantages / disadvantages?
[2010-08-01 20:59:29] <KingAragorn> currently they are classed as articles, with the Portal namespace they'd be classed as portals only
[2010-08-01 20:59:46] <KingAragorn> plus it's standard practice across every wiki I've ever seen
[2010-08-01 21:01:28] <Morgan> What this mean for the books portal, for example? That if a newbie enters TG, and writes "books" in the search field - would he be redirected to Portal:Books?
[2010-08-01 21:01:41] <KingAragorn> yes
[2010-08-01 21:01:48] <Morgan> Or, to a "Books (disambiguations)"?
[2010-08-01 21:01:55] <KingAragorn> portal
[2010-08-01 21:02:17] <Morgan> Ok
[2010-08-01 21:02:18] <KingAragorn> that's the point of portals (or gateways as we should call them here)
[2010-08-01 21:03:11] <Morgan> I don't have much to opinion on this, for me it would be okay (though I belive Ederchil should have a say too)
[2010-08-01 21:04:28] <KingAragorn> yes, I'll bring it up in a forum or somewhere
[2010-08-01 21:04:38] <KingAragorn> what about redesigning our portals?
[2010-08-01 21:04:58] <KingAragorn> they're not the prettiest things: http://tolkiengateway.net/wiki/Locations
[2010-08-01 21:04:58] <mithrennaith> Search now only searches Main namespace, so to have the portal turn up for a newbie when he types ‘books’ the default setting for search would have to be extended to include Portal (or Gateway) namespace.
[2010-08-01 21:05:06] <Morgan> +1 on redesign! They look a little 1990s
[2010-08-01 21:05:34] <Morgan> The Locations portal is hilarious!
[2010-08-01 21:05:35] <mithrennaith> +1
[2010-08-01 21:05:48] <KingAragorn> well it would redirect
[2010-08-01 21:06:11] <KingAragorn> I was working on this: http://tolkiengateway.net/wiki/User:KingAragorn/Sandbox
[2010-08-01 21:06:39] <KingAragorn> I wanted to work with Mith on it, but he's been busy lately especially with TG going down all the time
[2010-08-01 21:07:25] <Morgan> Oh, I use the old blue and white mediawiki skin, does the brown colours of the present Locations portal/gateway turn up in the TG skin as well?
[2010-08-01 21:07:43] <Morgan> But your sandbox looks nice, KA
[2010-08-01 21:08:01] <KingAragorn> even worse in Ithilien I'd say
[2010-08-01 21:08:41] <Morgan> "Ithilien" - is that the name of the old skin?
[2010-08-01 21:08:53] <KingAragorn> and my List of Place Names page comes in useful for the 'Browse Locations' feature
[2010-08-01 21:08:56] <KingAragorn> it's the new one
[2010-08-01 21:11:10] <mithrennaith> I like the sandbox to, KA
[2010-08-01 21:12:01] <KingAragorn> thanks, I'm still thinking of what content to include exactly
[2010-08-01 21:12:08] <KingAragorn> so you guys like the design of it?
[2010-08-01 21:12:59] <mithrennaith> yep.
[2010-08-01 21:13:02] <Morgan> It's way better than the present Locations portal, KA, don't worry about it
[2010-08-01 21:14:11] <mithrennaith> [OT] the site on JRRT Enc. I was thinking of is here: http://users.bestweb.net/~jfgm/EncyclopediaDiary/
[2010-08-01 21:14:17] <Morgan> Design-wise, I mean, I haven't had time to study the functions
[2010-08-01 21:14:38] <mithrennaith> [OT]and here is what Drout had to say: http://wormtalk.blogspot.com/search?q=Tolkien+Encyclopedia
[2010-08-01 21:15:00] <mithrennaith> I’m talking design-wise also.
[2010-08-01 21:17:47] <Morgan> Thanks for the links, Mithr
[2010-08-01 21:18:42] <Morgan> Actually, both links were already featured on the JRRTE TG article ;)
[2010-08-01 21:18:49] <mithrennaith> ;)
[2010-08-01 21:19:07] <mithrennaith> didn’t think to look there ... should have!
[2010-08-01 21:19:43] <Morgan> I gotta go in like five minutes - any more topics that I can contribute to?
[2010-08-01 21:19:58] <KingAragorn> I think that's it
[2010-08-01 21:20:49] <Morgan> KA, kudos for making these meeting come into existence
[2010-08-01 21:20:59] <mithrennaith> on the JRRTE TG article, only an older Drout blog post is linked, not the one on the addenda though
[2010-08-01 21:21:05] <KingAragorn> lol, this one was pretty rushed
[2010-08-01 21:21:22] <KingAragorn> in organising
[2010-08-01 21:21:22] <mithrennaith> Can I moot 2 points?
[2010-08-01 21:21:28] <KingAragorn> go ahead
[2010-08-01 21:21:31] <Morgan> yes!
[2010-08-01 21:21:32] <mithrennaith> #1 next meeting
[2010-08-01 21:21:45] <mithrennaith> #2 forum tech problems.
[2010-08-01 21:21:47] <Morgan> I would say when the server issues are solved
[2010-08-01 21:21:54] <Morgan> for 1
[2010-08-01 21:22:19] <mithrennaith> Can we entice Hyarion back in the discussion for this?
[2010-08-01 21:22:29] <Morgan> Mithr: do you mean "forum" as a verb?
[2010-08-01 21:22:36] <mithrennaith> No.
[2010-08-01 21:22:55] <Morgan> ok - sorry :)
[2010-08-01 21:22:57] <mithrennaith> I mean that the forum on TG is not functioning properly at the moment,
[2010-08-01 21:23:24] <mithrennaith> so that it is rather difficult (though not impossible) to discuss matters onwiki at the moment.
[2010-08-01 21:23:58] <mithrennaith> For instance something as the two Portal issues could benefit from a forum discussion,
[2010-08-01 21:24:16] <mithrennaith> but no one will notice that one has been started as things are now.
[2010-08-01 21:24:26] <KingAragorn> we could still make threads, we'd just have to look at the category to find them
[2010-08-01 21:24:40] <KingAragorn> or recent changes
[2010-08-01 21:24:54] <Morgan> IMO, the forum is a more "democratic" platform than the "Meetings", since people that are not able to participate at a certain meeting can have a say
[2010-08-01 21:25:01] <mithrennaith> Quite. For which you need to know your way about the wiki. So I wanted to ask Hyarion what is ..
[2010-08-01 21:26:01] <mithrennaith> .. preventing the forum from working properly, and if it is possible to do something about it quickly, aside from the general stability issue.
[2010-08-01 21:26:03] <KingAragorn> I agree Morgan
[2010-08-01 21:26:17] <KingAragorn> Hyarion, do you know what's wrong with the forums?
[2010-08-01 21:28:06] <Hyarion> back, sorry about that.
[2010-08-01 21:28:18] <mithrennaith> Thank you!
[2010-08-01 21:28:36] <mithrennaith> Can you read back what we’ve been saying on the forum problem?
[2010-08-01 21:28:38] <Hyarion> I haven't looked at the forums, the extension after we upgraded mediawiki
[2010-08-01 21:28:50] <Hyarion> the extension may need to be upgraded*
[2010-08-01 21:29:04] <Morgan> But hey, Mithr, (old topic) you can find a corrigenda document for download on the blog of Drout (perhaps you said that, but I missed it)
[2010-08-01 21:30:13] <mithrennaith> [OT] Morgan, that’s what I noticed now, now I searched Drout’s blog. And that is on the newer blog post that you don’t get with the link on the TG article.
[2010-08-01 21:30:37] <Morgan> I'll edit the article right away
[2010-08-01 21:30:57] <mithrennaith> [OT] So maybe a link to that post, and to the addenda&corrigenda documents there as well ... - - as you are saying, indeed ;)
[2010-08-01 21:34:04] <Morgan> The edit became a little rushed, but it's there at least
[2010-08-01 21:34:15] <mithrennaith> Hyarion, can you do the forum extention upgrade on the side, or would that seriously disrupt your work on solving the stability problem?
[2010-08-01 21:40:58] <Morgan> Ok, I gotta go now. Nice talking to you all! See you around
[2010-08-01 21:41:56] <mithrennaith> Morgan, I might do some improve on that linking at JRRTE article. See you around!
[2010-08-01 21:42:05] <Morgan> (I'll the IRC open, though)
[2010-08-01 21:42:12] <Morgan> ...leave...
[2010-08-01 21:42:38] <mithrennaith> How about next meeting?
[2010-08-01 21:42:56] <mithrennaith> KingAragorn, Hyarion?
[2010-08-01 21:46:37] <KingAragorn> erm... whenever people can make it I don't mind
[2010-08-01 21:50:35] <mithrennaith> As long as they are announced timely on the Community Portal and Meetings pages.
[2010-08-01 21:52:29] <mithrennaith> I will not be there on 8th, 22nd and 29th August and most probably not on 15th August, either, so that leaves me out in the foreseeable future.
[2010-08-01 21:53:51] <KingAragorn> oki doki, I'll bare it in mind if/when I come to organise it
[2010-08-01 21:57:05] <mithrennaith> Right!
[2010-08-01 21:57:34] <mithrennaith> I think that’s time to close the meeting then, KA.
[2010-08-01 21:58:35] <KingAragorn> OK, meeting closed. Thank you for attending everyone. :)
[2010-08-01 23:39:28] <--| Morgan has left #Wiki