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User talk:Hyarion

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Welcome to Hyarion's talk page.


[edit] valimar

Hi Hyarion, I'm one of the Founders & Bureaucrats of valimar (and also one of the admins in Persian Wikipedia). I'm glad that you setup us as your sister-site. I'll setup reciprocal links to TG articles as soon as possible. Best Regards -- PHoBiA 19:41, 27 March 2011 (UTC) ``

[edit] Missing Gandalf edit in recent changes

The database seems to have behaved strangely when I edited Gandalf. I removed the occurrences of the word "human" from the article, and couldn't load the page. However, looking in the article history, my edit is there, but it doesn't appear in "Recent changes". And strangely enough, a search for "human" on TG still yields the article "Gandalf", although the word "human" cannot be found (any longer) in the article. Maybe the issue will disappear once the database reloads or refreshes! :-) --Morgan 23:11, 24 April 2011 (UTC)

While you're at it, another strange page is the Portal:Locations/Category tree. This page, which has been changed to a redirect, still seems to carry an imprint in the database somehow. E.g., searching on "human" on TG makes "Portal:Locations/Category Tree" show up. --Morgan 23:28, 24 April 2011 (UTC)

[edit] what is a Tolkien Mile ?

It seems to me that there is something wrong with using a standard (english) mile for Tolkiens Maps. The result is a Middle Earth which is too small. Tolkien used a lot of History and Myth from other parts of Northern Europe. Could Tolkiens Mile actually be the 'Irish' mile which was used by the English in Ireland for centuries. I will get more detail if needed but I think 1 'irish' mile is equal to 1.27 'english' miles. If this were the case Middle Earth would be 27% greater in size which would be an improvement as there are a number of references to distance which only make sense if the 'english' mile is increased substantially. The 'swedish' mile is equal to 6 'english' miles which is too big. Unsigned comment by Nuadamor (talk • contribs). (00:01, 22 May 2011).

If I remember correctly he used a fictional mile, the Númenorean mile. I don't remember how big that is (but I think it was, the Númenorean feet at least was), but I think it can be found at Unfinished Tales. --Amroth 14:29, 24 May 2011 (UTC)
At Oxonmoot some years ago Alex Lewis actually gave a talk saying he thought that the scale of the maps was incorrect (sadly, I can't remember by how much, or indeed, in which direction). The Númenóreans had the lár which was very slightly shorter than our league (three miles); there is no indication that Tolkien intended to use anything other than the English statute mile (defined in law since 1592) in the maps.
(I should point out, there is the "Old English mile" which was variously longer than the statute mile - about 1.3 statute miles - but why would Tolkien logically use a different measure?) --Mith (Talk/Contribs/Edits) 10:55, 25 May 2011 (UTC)
Tolkien’s discussion of the Númenórean league refered to by Amroth can be found in the appendix ‘Númenórean linear measures’ in J.R.R. Tolkien, Christopher Tolkien (ed.), Unfinished Tales, "The Disaster of the Gladden Fields" - it is 5000 rangar of about 38 (imperial) inches, and therefor nearly equal to one statute league of 5280 yards (= three statute miles). It seems this can be taken as evidence that, certainly around the time of the revision of The Lord of the Rings, Tolkien was regarding distances in his legendarium as described (approximately) in statute leagues and miles.
However, in Wayne G. Hammond and Christina Scull (eds), The Lord of the Rings: A Reader's Companion, (on pp. 22-23 in the 2005 hardbound edition), Tolkien’s notes on two attempts at devising a Hobbit system of linear measures can be found. In one of these attempts he arrives as longest measure at a ‘long mile, or gait mile’, or ‘yong-mile or longmile’ of 2,304 imperial yards. That is certainly very nearly equal to 1.3 statute miles, and so these attempts may be related to the ‘Old English mile’ mentioned by Mith. (There is also a ‘(short) mile, or pace-mile’ of half this length, 1,152 imperial yards.)
But in the other attempt he arrives at a different type of mile, namely one of 1,600 imperial yards, thus being somewhat shorter than the statute mile. And it is only in this attempt that the term ‘league’ is mentioned as containing 3 of these miles. That is in my opinion an obstacle to any supposition that a ‘long’ or ‘Old English’ mile could have been intended in the text of The Lord of the Rings. In fact, all linear measures used in that work are such as were in normal use in the imperial system when Tolkien grew up: inch, foot, ell, fathom, furlong, mile and league; and of these only foot, mile and league turn up in his attempts at a Hobbit system of measures.
And finally, I have never found any reason to consider Tolkien’s Middle-earth as mapped too small. I would be interested in knowing why Alex Lewis thinks so (or at least thought so a couple of years ago). In fact had Mith said so a week earlier, I would have asked Alex, since I had ample opportunity to discuss it with him over the last weekend. — Mithrennaith 04:39, 27 May 2011 (UTC)
I would have been unable to posts that had not yet been made! --Mith (Talk/Contribs/Edits) 17:38, 27 May 2011 (UTC)
Well, of course! I was trying to imply that I wished Nuadamor had posed his question earlier, and you had then replied as promptly as you in fact did, but I got a bit convoluted and cut too much from my sentence. — Mithrennaith 04:17, 28 May 2011 (UTC)

[edit] TG is a thoroughly enjoyable read!

Hyarion, just wanted to say that this is an excellent Tolkien site and it has been a pleasure to read some of the articles I have come across so far. I can see that a great deal of time and effort has gone into making the site what it is today, a professional-looking, informative and well-built engine of encyclopaedic Tolkien knowledge. I have even been inspired for my own wiki (not Tolkien related) by the way articles and templates have been put together. The skin is amazing too; wish I had something unique instead of the plain vector skin.

Do keep up the good work. Kerchi 10:13, 30 May 2011 (UTC)

Hi Kerchi, thanks so much for your compliments! It's in feedback like yours which makes it all worth it. We look forward to seeing you around. If you have any questions or suggestions feel free to let me know. --Hyarion 22:02, 30 May 2011 (UTC)
You're welcome. I can see that quality has been an important driving force for those who have put this site together and believe me I know how difficult it can be what with running my own wiki, so I intend to keep having a look around and read a few more articles. --Kerchi  talk | contribs | edits 22:54, 30 May 2011 (UTC)

[edit] Dictionary-style searches

Being able to search for the English translation of a specific Elvish word (or in any other invented language) would be very useful! Would it be difficult to implement something like this?

To exemplify: let's say I wanted to know if Tolkien invented some word for "alphabet". I just type "alphabet" in a search box, which would take me to a "disambig" article suggesting me to read either an article on Noldorin tiwdi or on Quenya tengwanda.

Perhaps we can implement this in the current "disambiguation" system (but we would get a huge amount of disambig articles, though!)?

--Morgan 11:40, 13 June 2011 (UTC)

Sounds like a good idea. Maybe it should get an own namespace, so there won't be too much disambigs. --Amroth 11:48, 13 June 2011 (UTC)
Maybe something to discuss in a meeting?--Morgan 12:20, 13 June 2011 (UTC)
This could be a nice basis for a Portal:Languages, don't you think?
I'm also thinking that if we add an alphabetically-based category to all invented words, we would have both an English-Elvish(et al) and an Elvish(et al)-English list of words. Another solution could perhaps be to have a certain namespace, like "Dictionary Index:A", "Dictionary Index:B", etc, as a complement to the current Index namespace.--Morgan 12:31, 13 June 2011 (UTC)
Noting old discussion: Forum:Elvish-English and English-Elvish entries --Morgan 21:58, 20 June 2011 (UTC)

[edit] Start article name with lower-case letters?

Would it be possible to do a tech tweak in order to create article names with lower-case letters? IMHO, this would be great for the linguistic articles on words - a standard which also Wiktionary uses. --Morgan 09:59, 3 July 2011 (UTC)

All articles have to begin with a capital letter (that's a technical limitation which can't be changed). You can use DISPLAYTITLE in order to make it appear as if they begin with a lower-case letter, however (see this working in TG:Sandbox right now). --Mith (Talk/Contribs/Edits) 10:13, 3 July 2011 (UTC)
Thanks, I'll bring it up at the meeting, to see if it's a good idea or not.--Morgan 11:09, 3 July 2011 (UTC)
I tried the code DISPLAYTITLE in the article brand (word), and I noticed that you can also remove the bracketed word - is this preferable or not? --Morgan 22:51, 3 July 2011 (UTC)

[edit] Long articles

What is causing the problem with the "long" articles? It's impossible for me to save an edit on "Eriador". However, another long article, "J.R.R. Tolkien", causes no problems.--Morgan 09:49, 18 July 2011 (UTC)

[edit] Adding to List of Arda Encyclopedia

Hi Hyarion. I'm one of the Valimar administrators. The Biggest Persian Encyclopedia about Arda and Tolkien. I want you to add us in the list of Arda Encyclopedia.(in this page).

I have to say we are your sister site.

Best Regards.

Welcome! No problem, your encyclopedia has been added to the list. --Hyarion 01:26, 20 July 2011 (UTC)

[edit] Tolkien Gateway email addresses

Hi Hyarion! You promised to look into the prospect of Tolkien Gateway email addresses; has there been any progress? -- KingAragorn  talk  contribs  edits  email  15:18, 26 September 2011 (UTC)

Hey KA! Yes, I think Google Apps (Free) is going to be our best option. It's halfway setup and the plan is to have it fully functional by the upcoming meeting. --Hyarion
Awesome! I look forward to it! :) -- KingAragorn  talk  contribs  edits  email  14:31, 27 September 2011 (UTC)
Is it done yet? -- KingAragorn  talk  contribs  edits  email  12:42, 8 October 2011 (UTC)
Was I ignored? :( -- KingAragorn  talk  contribs  edits  email  22:31, 10 October 2011 (UTC)

[edit] TS permission

Hi! I noticed that the Amon Hen articles carry the sentence "Reprinted by kind permission of The Tolkien Society and the named cover artist(s) - all rights reserved." What exactly does this refer to? I'm pretty sure that cover images and a description of the contents goes under fair use for educational purposes in any country...? Can this "permission" be removed, or moved to a copyright page (as it looks kind of strange in the context of the individual articles)? --Morgan 18:30, 10 October 2011 (UTC)

I believe the wording came from Andrew Butler who went to great lengths to make sure even the individual artists were okay with having their cover art displayed on the wiki. I'd agree though that the content most likely falls under fair use and a more minor notation would be suitable. I think some statement is worth having if only to illustrate the extra steps taken to consider the copyright holders. -- Hyarion
Alright. I'll try to remember to bring the issue up at a meeting. Thanks for quick answer! --Morgan 18:46, 10 October 2011 (UTC)

[edit] Numenor

Isn't this strange? This old version yields a redlink to "Númenor". --Morgan 16:32, 22 February 2012 (UTC)

And this is even more strange, while the real article still exists. --Amroth 20:17, 22 February 2012 (UTC)
Hm, definitely must be the way the symbol is translated and encoded. I'll do some research. Good catch! --Hyarion 02:53, 23 February 2012 (UTC)

[edit] Editing Rise of the Witch King Game Campaign Details

I want to edit campaign details for the ROTWK game.There is a mistake in the last sentence.It is Prince Earnur who destroyed the Witch King not King Arveleg I.Can i have the permission to change the name of the King?? --Antoinevlah 17:24, 4 March 2012 (UTC)

If this is true, then please go ahead and edit the page.-- KingAragorn  talk  contribs  edits  email  17:37, 4 March 2012 (UTC)

[edit] On Battle of the Crossings of Poros

I contacted you on this subject because you created the page and I was not able to create a discussion on it. This page is a complete copy from the page at 15:08, 28 April 2012 (UTC)

We know about the copies, we're working on correcting them. If you find any other, just let us know. --Ederchil (Talk/Contribs/Edits) 16:31, 28 April 2012 (UTC)
Thanks for catching that There are still a few articles out there which do not adhere to our current standards. We will rectify this specific article as soon as possible, and as Ederchil mentioned, if you happen to stumble upon any others just let someone know. Thanks for your help! --Hyarion 16:40, 28 April 2012 (UTC)

[edit] Need Sumner Contact re: Bernie Zuber item


This is my second attempt to contact you through this website. And I'm not sure you are Hyarion -- but whoever is will know how to get this message to you.

I am Teny's friend Anita Farley who auctioned Bernie Zuber's collection after his death. My email address has changed, and I have lost yours in the process.

My new private email is: pippygpupp (at) charter (dot) net.

Please contact me. It is regarding a very rare item I still have from Bernie's collection.

Thank you, Anita

Hi Anita, I apologize as I'm afraid I will be of no help, I'm not sure who Sumner is. Sorry! --Hyarion 02:56, 11 August 2013 (UTC)

[edit] Jeremy Bennett Helms Deep Art Misattributed


You submitted artwork which is attributed to the wrong artist. The Jeremy Bennett Helm's Deep file is actually artwork by Paul Lasaine. See the links below:

Paul Lasaine Helm's Deep

Jeremy Bennett Helm's Deep

Note that Bennett's image has an encampment in the foreground.

Thought you should know so you can make the appropriate edits.


Emlit 03:40, 20 October 2013 (UTC)

[edit] hey!

thanks for dropping a line, i was also just curious if you wanted me to work on anything in particular? preferably work from video games or appendices, but anything else at all is good too. except for the history of middle earth (for now) as i don't have that yet! just let me know and i will start off o your "mission"! Thanks!

Bigb131999 02:53, 6 July 2014 (UTC)

[edit] Images

Are all the images on here yours, or did you grab them from somewhere else? --Mith (Talk/Contribs/Edits) 19:06, 19 August 2014 (UTC)

Doesn't look like any of those were taken by me, I should probably add the fairuse template to it. --Hyarion 05:56, 17 November 2014 (UTC)

[edit] I agree

I entirely agree with using the Irish mile. Also, Middle-earth is small, but there is so much else in Arda. Valinor, there used to be Numenor, and there are probably several other places as well, along the great ocean. --Elvenshieldmaiden 22:57, 18 October 2014 (UTC)

[edit] Could someone help me?

I am new here, and I would like help in creating a page for myself, about me. And I don't know how it works. How do you put in information about yourself, and how do you insert a picture of yourself? Please help me. Unsigned comment by Aduilith (talk • contribs).

Hi Aduilith! You can visit User:Aduilith to edit your user page. You can find some more frequently asked questions at Help:Contents. If you have any other questions just let us know; it's great to have you aboard! --Hyarion 05:59, 17 November 2014 (UTC)

[edit] Nature in the Two Towers

doing an essay on nature in the two towers...any help would be much appreciated.. Unsigned comment by Kimzimna (talk • contribs).

[edit] Greeting new users

I'm not sure that Mith is the best person to leave the initial greeting on new users' talk pages. I saw the greeting on my talk page, which suggested that I bring any questions to him. I did so, and his response was curt at best, rude at worst.

After looking through the other entries in his talk page, I got the impression that this is pretty much par for the course with him. I'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt, and assume he was having a bad day or something, but I don't think that this is the case. If he is determined to be laconic and/or borderline hostile, I think someone else should greet new users to the site.

If the status quo is maintained, we run the risk of scaring away the greater part of the people who join the site. It creates the impression that new people are not really welcome here, and their contributions (and especially their questions) are unwanted. I assume that this is not the case. WadCheber 04:36, 10 July 2015 (UTC)

Well said WadCheber. I have responded over on Mith's talk apge. --Hyarion 20:52, 11 July 2015 (UTC)

[edit] Founder

Hyarion, I'm getting the feeling there leaders on this web and such, but no one has mentioned who the founder is. Of course u made the council forums, and Mith has his bot, which are both impossible feats of coding, but who started it? -IgnorantArya

Hi Arya :) I hope your week is going great! Good question. Tolkien Gateway:About provides some background on the history of the site. If you have any more questions just let me know and I would be happy to answer them. TG in itself is definitely an impossible feat for any individual and I think it just goes to show how powerful a community of passionate fans can be, yourself included. --Hyarion 03:52, 13 July 2015 (UTC)

Thanks a ton Hyarion! Hope ur having an awesome summer or winter break (depending what hemisphere you're enjoying your vacation in) Arya 01:35, 16 July 2015 (UTC)

[edit] Image Download

Me again, Hi! I was wondering if you could download or tell me how to download Airyn's file (if it's okay with u). I believe it's a good representation of his travels, and there are no other images on that page so far. Still a newbie with the whole techy stuff, sorry! Arya 00:13, 12 October 2015 (UTC)

[edit] Re-writes

When it lists things on the To-do list, like an article needs to be re-written because it does not meet the standards, how does one know what needs to be done?

Does it need to be longer? Does it need more refs put in?

The only comment I saw on the Eöl page, for example, is the genealogy chart was too long for a relatively minor character. That's a small edit though not a re-write.

I really don't know how to start or what to add. The information presented may be brief, but it is not incorrect. Unsigned comment by Elf-esteem (talk • contribs).

Hi Elf-esteem, it's great to have you aboard! In regards to Eöl, I agree there should have been more information as to what actually needs to be rewritten. The History section is the primary culprit. Those paragraphs contain quite a bit of conjecture and lack proper citations. Thanks for joining the community and we look forward to having you around! --Hyarion 19:47, 27 November 2015 (UTC)
Super! I'll get on cleaning up The Silmarillion based Histroy summary with clear references to that book. He's an interesting, albeit shady, character and people should know more about him. --Elf-esteem 20:25, 27 November 2015 (UTC)

[edit] Brooks Williams' All That Is Gold

This is for your music page somewhere. Brooks Williams (the U.S.A. citizen, not the Canadian) is a fabulous folk guitarist. On his album Back to Mercy (1992 he did a song called "All That Is Gold" (see track 2 at which includes poetically reinterpreted lyrics from Tolkien:

All that is gold does not glitter, All those who wander are not lost; All that is old does not wither, Deep roots are not touched by frost. From the ashes a fire shall be awoken, A light from the shadows shall spring....

You should definitely check it out--a beautiful song.Lockridgesatverizondotnet 21:08, 30 November 2015 (UTC)

[edit] Stuff I'm editing

Okay, so I worked on Eöl, but I think it needs an admin to look it over? Same with Magic, which was like... a lot (possibly too much!). And now I have two pages I want to work on: Second Kinslaying (Sack of Doriath) and Thranduil.

I'm happy to go back and fix whatever, but I just need some clear direction. Or someone who knows "the vision" could just purge the extraneous. IDC, honestly, people can cut out massive amounts of what I've written, and I won't cry about it. I just want to help get things done.

Now for the Second Kinslaying page, the title needs to be changed to Second Kinslaying because it's a misnomer to call it the Sack of Doriath, as others mentioned on the Talk page for it. With Thingol and Melian gone, The Battle of the Thousand Caves is the actual sack of Doriath because the Dwarves stole all the treasure, it literally, got sacked. Okay, so how do you change a page's title? I guess it's kinda a big deal? Everything about the Dwarves should be nixed on that page except for a transition sentence that will link to the Battle of the Thousand Caves/Sack of Doriath page. Anything not mentioned in the "Battle" page will be copied and integrated from "Sack" to "Battle", that way good content is not lost.

I would like to do that! The resulting Second Kinslaying page will end up being very brief, but it will at least be focused on just that topic.

Ok, Thranduil's page, on the Talk it says there's too much extra stuff on there. For example, some of it in the Early History can be moved to the Silvan Elves page. I'd be fine with scooting it over there. I could do this with kid gloves and just hide what was written without outright deleting it, if you want? There was a post on Talk that taking out too much seemed to be a concern?

Anyway, I like to get in there and do stuff, and I'm not expecting a pat on the head with each edit. But, I am concerned to keep pouring effort into pages without guidance. If I'm doing it wrong, I need someone to tell me. If silence is consent around here, I'll just keep going. And do I have to use claim tags when I work on revising/re-writing pages? I saw that on a talk page and I don't even know what that is.

I tried to get on IRC to ask someone these questions, but I guess it's offline. Elf-esteem 01:26, 1 December 2015 (UTC)