Talk:Finrod

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Latest comment: 4 July 2023 by MendicantBias in topic Finrod: RE - Rings of Power

Portrayal in adaptations[edit source]

(This topic has been moved here from Talk:Isildur)

Also R.E. your comments on the Finrod page. I think you're being very loose here. Yes, Finrod is an Elf and the brother of Galadriel in the Amazon show, but that is the only way he resembles his book counterpart. They changed his death, included him in events the books tell us he did not participate in and changed his personality.

That you set such high standards for the movies but are willing to give Rings of Power so much wiggle room seems like a double standard. English Lady (talk) 15:50, 2 July 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

The statement that none of his material in Rings of Power can be found in the books is the only phrase I removed as I don't think we can factually say that. He also has golden hair as described in the books, and I think there were a lot of similarities with his death that were derived from the books. Hyarion (talk) 16:12, 2 July 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Such as? The series says he died "hunting Sauron". In the books he was killed by a werewolf saving Beren when accompanying him on his quest for the Silmaril.
Can I say that this is determined by your personal preference for the series and hatred for the movies? You're willing to let things slide in one that you would not in the other? English Lady (talk) 17:18, 2 July 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
The series also shows him taking the Oath of Feanor which absolutely did not happen in the books. It shows all the sons of Feanor with black hair when we know at least two were redheads.
Galadriel's hair was supposed to shine with the pure light of the 2 trees of Valinor, in the series she's just a dirty blonde with split ends. Hardly matches that description.
The list goes on... very very little of the series is supported by the books. Why shouldn't people be allowed to point that out? English Lady (talk) 17:23, 2 July 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Not sure if you had a chance to read the post I linked, but this page shows the subtle details of his death pretty well. (You might need to press a "Click to see spoiler" button to see the image. I enjoyed Peter Jackson's films a lot more than the Rings of Power, we just need to remember we're an encyclopedia, so saying blanket statements like "none of the material can be found in the books" is not accurate if there are any similarities. The Oath of Fëanor is listed as a difference between the books, so I'm not sure why you would think you aren't allowed to point that out? The hair color of Galadriel or the Sons of Fëanor isn't something relevant to this particular article. Hyarion (talk) 18:00, 2 July 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
OK granted, I may have gone a bit OTT there, but I think when it comes to misconceptions the changes to Finrod are just as likely to influence perceptions of the character.
BTW since it might be relevant, I noticed there was no comprehensive listing of the differences to the books in the series overall, and when I listed some one of the mods removed all the content without explanation. I moved and rewrote some of it, and still there for now, but I do have reasons to doubt the objectivity of the person in question that I don't want to mention here. English Lady (talk) 19:03, 2 July 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
I'm not sure I understand why reverting LorenzoCB's changes was necessary. Next time can you discuss things on a talk page before reverting someone's changes? Listing the episodes by season and episode number is in line with all our other articles, more helpful to the reader than the original air date, and it will continue to make sense once Season 2 is released, the dates you added don't even have a year. You've also introduced some grammatical mistakes and removed interwiki links that LorenzoCB had added. We appreciate your cooperation. We're all working together to achieve the same goal so we need to make sure we work as a team. Hyarion (talk) 20:44, 2 July 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
That was why I listed all the changes by Episode. I can add the number and air date if you like. Including year. I can also do grammar checks. However, removing all references to deviations from the lore on the grounds of a spelling error makes it appear as though the person doing it is are not being impartial and just don't want people to know the series is inacccurate. Spelling errors can be fixed, there is no reason to remove entire sections on that basis, especially when there are grammatical mistakes in some of Lorenzos pages. English Lady (talk) 20:57, 2 July 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
If not mistaken, i think he reverted yiur edits because while doing this you removed a whole section. It is like vandalism. Sage (talk) 01:57, 3 July 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
I then corrected those edits and restored the sub section, which was blank anyway.
They were still removed by him. Lorenzo is now saying that no section can be added to hightlight the lore changes and deviations from the source material in Rings of Power, even though sections have been added to the pages of the movies in which none of the content is referenced. This is misleading and depriving potential readers of valuable information because the personal bias of an Admin. Do you feel this is right? English Lady (talk) 07:27, 3 July 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Finrod: RE - Rings of Power[edit source]

A few discrepancies and cleaning up of the sections dedicated to Finrod's portrayal in Rings of Power. MendicantBias (talk) 06:21, 3 July 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Hello! I wanted to give my thoughts regarding the formatting and content in this section, as I think it could very much use some improvement to bring it up to a higher standard of quality.
I very much appreciate that the character's appearances are divided into his relevant episodes. That makes things a lot easier. Below is a copy of the first episode text alone as it exists at the time of this posting, along with my notes on changes that could be made for easier reading. Below that is my own suggested rewrite of the section for viewing.
Galadriel recalls a memory of her brother during her childhood at the time of the Years of the Trees.
[Could use some reworking and set up to divide Finrod's scenes. Also, I'm not certain on why this section is being labeled as "Galadriel's memories/recollections" when simply stating something along the lines of "Finrod appears entirely during the show's opening/prologue" or "Galadriel's monologue" is more clear in regards to what is happening in the show. Third, I'm unclear on why the term "Years of the Trees" is being used when the show does not make any such usage of the term. It should simply state "in Valinor".]
In the memory, after some Elf children bully her and sink her paper swan ship, she attempts to attack one of them. However, Finrod (portrayed by Will Fletcher)
[I'm not sure why the actor for Finrod is being stated here and in such a manner. A separate sentence at the beginning of the section should say "Finrod is portrayed by actor Will Fletcher in Amazon's The Rings of Power."]
shows up just in time to prevent her from doing any harm. Not long after, Finrod is seen talking to Galadriel beneath a tree, where it is revealed that Galadriel had made the ship just as Finrod had taught her.
["Not long after"? Are these not the same scene?]
To which, Finrod asks her if she knows why ships float while stones cannot, and tells her, after a moment of silence, that stones look downwards towards the irresistible darkness of water while ships look upwards towards starlight, fighting against the darkness of water, whispering on things it would not know.
[This feels like poor grammar. The sentence is excessively long, making it quite the run on.]
Galadriel questions Finrod, saying that stars are reflected just as brightly within water and that it is hard to know which lights to follow, up or down. Upon thinking, Finrod whispers to her: "Sometimes we cannot know until we have touched the darkness". To this, Galadriel ponders that it sounds simple and Finrod tells her that many things are, but she must decide realize them for herself as he will not always be there to help. Not elaborating on this further, Finrod stands up and tells her that their parents are waiting for them, before walking over a hill to reveal the Two Trees.
Later in Galadriel's recollections,
[At this point this is a good spot to specify this as "Finrod's second scene" - though technically it is his third, as he is next shown taking the Oath of Feanor alongside other elves, which I noticed is omitted from the summary.]
Finrod is seen in a battle shouting phrases in Quenya: "Valaron kalanen" ("By the light of the Valar!") and "Firuvantë" ("They will die!").
Galadriel mentions that he vowed to destroy Sauron, Morgoth's sorcerer and lieutenant. Yet Sauron found and defeated Finrod first, marking his corpse with a red symbol, which not even the wisest Elves could decipher, causing Galadriel to take up her brother's vow and dagger for herself.
[This doesn't specify that Galadriel takes the blade from Finrod's body, or properly make clear the transition between the battle scene and the next one. It also elaborates unnecessarily on details regarding the mark of Sauron.]
Potenital rewrite:
Finrod is portrayed by Actor Will Fletcher for Amazon's The Rings of Power Series and appears in two episodes.
[Episode 1 summary.]
Finrod's appearances this episode are exclusively in the show's opening prologue.
His first scene takes place in Valinor where he breaks up a fight between the young Galadriel and other elf children after retrieving a paper boat made by Galadriel. Finrod pulls her aside and attempts to comfort Galadriel, posing a philosophical question to his sister: "Do you know why a ship floats, and a stone does not?"
Finrod then proceeds to answer the metaphor for Galadriel (A ship looks up at the light while a stone looks down into the dark), to which she poses a question of her own regarding how one is to know which "lights" to follow. Finrod then leans in and whispers an answer, though that answer is kept hidden from the audience for this episode.
Concluding their discussion, Finrod makes a point that Galadriel will not always have him around to explain these sort of things to her. He then tells her that their parents are waiting as he walks over a hill towards the Two Trees of Valinor.
Finrod is next briefly seen taking an Oath alongside numerous other Elves in response to Morgoth's killing of the Two Trees of Valinor.
Finrod is then shown in the midst of a battle with Orcs in Middle Earth, attempting to rally his troops while shouting phrases in Quenya: "Valaron kalanen" ("By the light of the Valar!") and "Firuvantë" ("They will die!").
His final appearance in the prologue is atop his tomb, Galadriel's monologue mentioning that Finrod had died while pursuing Sauron after Morgoth's defeat. His body is shown to be clawed in numerous places and he had been branded with the Mark of Sauron. Galadriel then takes Finrod's dagger from his body to serve as a memento of her brother as she takes up his hunt for Sauron. MendicantBias (talk) 07:03, 3 July 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Yes: also the present section on the page is misleading. It gives the impression that Finrod's "death at the hand of Sauron" is faithful to the books, when it is not. It also fails to the address the fact that the Appendices give us an accurate account of how he died consistent witht the Silmarillion, and so Amazon's rights cannot be used as to justify this change. It is in the material they have the rights to. English Lady (talk) 07:22, 3 July 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Why don't you make those edits? English Lady (talk) 07:24, 3 July 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
I also went ahead and fixed the second episode's summary. Cut down on the direct quoting (this is a summary of Finrod's appearances, not a play-by-play), removed reference to the Glanduin (was never identified as such in the episode), clarified Sauron's identity and WHY Finrod appears (original only uses "Halbrand" when the show is being open about Sauron by this point), and fixed the summary to now reveal Finrod's "touch the darkness" quote here where it was relevant as opposed to the first episode where it wasn't disclosed. The entire summary has also been refined to be more presentable than the original form. MendicantBias (talk) 09:33, 4 July 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]