Talk:Khamûl: Difference between revisions
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Khamul is definitely the second Nazgul with the epithet Shadow of the East and Second Chief according to the present passage in Hunt for the Ring Chapter of Unfinished Tales. Also, even though''' the Black Easterling''' epithet was included in the rejected version of the present passage (Hunt for the Ring, note 1 said that)Does this mean that the BE epithet was rejected directly or even if it was in the rejected story, it was other epithet? | Khamul is definitely the second Nazgul with the epithet Shadow of the East and Second Chief according to the present passage in Hunt for the Ring Chapter of Unfinished Tales. Also, even though''' the Black Easterling''' epithet was included in the rejected version of the present passage (Hunt for the Ring, note 1 said that)Does this mean that the BE epithet was rejected directly or even if it was in the rejected story, it was other epithet? | ||
Christopher Tolkien has already told us that even JRRT’s rejected (abandoned) notes and tales in UT had a meaning and significance. According to Introduction of UT, Christopher Tolkien said that: “... On the other hand, the nature and scope of his invention seems to me to place even his abandoned stories in a peculiar position.” He pointed out the importance of getting information from each story (abandoned or present). Further, for example; by maintaining this will, of Christopher Tolkien, in the INDEX chapter of UT (Even though the Black Easterling epithet was a small part of the rejected version), Chritopher Tolkien stated: “Khamul... His epithets: Shadow of the East, the Black Easterling.”If BE epithet belongs to him, we can say he would be an Easterling, otherwise he was not. What should we consider? | Christopher Tolkien has already told us that even JRRT’s rejected (abandoned) notes and tales in UT had a meaning and significance. According to Introduction of UT, Christopher Tolkien said that: “... On the other hand, the nature and scope of his invention seems to me to place even his abandoned stories in a peculiar position.” He pointed out the importance of getting information from each story (abandoned or present). Further, for example; by maintaining this will, of Christopher Tolkien, in the INDEX chapter of UT (Even though the Black Easterling epithet was a small part of the rejected version), Chritopher Tolkien stated: “Khamul... His epithets: Shadow of the East, the Black Easterling.”If BE epithet belongs to him, we can say he would be an Easterling, otherwise he was not. What should we consider? | ||
:The statement that he was an Easterling is just a speculation, because J.R.R. Tolkien rejected Black Easterling in a note. As a consequence, the entry should only say that it is "possible" that he was an easterling. I have not checked the references in the article, but I think that J.R.R. Tolkien has not said that he was the commander of Dol Guldur or that he was in Dol Guldur. | |||
Revision as of 03:53, 22 September 2020
Category for the Nazgûl
There's not a category for the Nazgûl. Where should we place them? --Ebakunin 14:33, 20 July 2006 (EDT)
- Hm, a category just for Nazgûl seems like a waste but I suppose its necessary for standardization. Do we call it Nazgûl or Ringwraiths though? Maybe another main category should be made for Evil forces or something similar. --Hyarion 15:18, 20 July 2006 (EDT)
More references
I'm sure that there's more references to Khamûl; I'm struggling to remember where I read about Khamûl helping the Lord of the Nazgul find the ring by going into the Anduin -he is the only Nazgul to go in despite being afraid(I think) of water although the Lord of the Nazgul wasn't. So, does anyone know what I'm talking about?-- KingAragorn talk contribs edits email 16:06, 6 June 2008 (EDT)
- The Hunt for the Ring (in UT)? Or Reader's Companion? I remember it had some unpublished bits from Hunt ft Ring. B-- Ederchil 16:22, 6 June 2008 (EDT)
Portrayal?
I know Alan Lee and John Howe played two of the 9 kings, did it say if either of them was Khamûl? I dont have my dvds handy.--Quidon88 15:41, 27 June 2008 (EDT)
- John Howe did not have any cameos. It is unknown which of the nine was Khamûl. -- Ederchil 15:53, 27 June 2008 (EDT)
- Your right, I always heard he did, guess I should have checked his article before saying that.--Quidon88 16:01, 27 June 2008 (EDT)
Epithets of Khamul
Khamul is definitely the second Nazgul with the epithet Shadow of the East and Second Chief according to the present passage in Hunt for the Ring Chapter of Unfinished Tales. Also, even though the Black Easterling epithet was included in the rejected version of the present passage (Hunt for the Ring, note 1 said that)Does this mean that the BE epithet was rejected directly or even if it was in the rejected story, it was other epithet? Christopher Tolkien has already told us that even JRRT’s rejected (abandoned) notes and tales in UT had a meaning and significance. According to Introduction of UT, Christopher Tolkien said that: “... On the other hand, the nature and scope of his invention seems to me to place even his abandoned stories in a peculiar position.” He pointed out the importance of getting information from each story (abandoned or present). Further, for example; by maintaining this will, of Christopher Tolkien, in the INDEX chapter of UT (Even though the Black Easterling epithet was a small part of the rejected version), Chritopher Tolkien stated: “Khamul... His epithets: Shadow of the East, the Black Easterling.”If BE epithet belongs to him, we can say he would be an Easterling, otherwise he was not. What should we consider?
- The statement that he was an Easterling is just a speculation, because J.R.R. Tolkien rejected Black Easterling in a note. As a consequence, the entry should only say that it is "possible" that he was an easterling. I have not checked the references in the article, but I think that J.R.R. Tolkien has not said that he was the commander of Dol Guldur or that he was in Dol Guldur.
