Talk:Dorwinion

Etymology

I have not verified this, but the etymology of Dorwinion is, as presently written, conjectural. That Dorwinion is where the wines of Thranduil were made is not sufficient to infer that "win" means "wine" in any Elvish dialect, however obscure, especially since there is no attestation to that effect. In the absence of further information, it's a forgivable conjecture, but I've come to understand that Parma Eldalamberon 17:191 suggests that gwîn "young" might be the proper root. Ainaldo

The map

As per an article by Martinez, I removed the following sentence:

The canonical location was decided at random by [[Pauline Baynes]] while drawing [[A Map of Middle-earth]]. Tolkien was surprised but agreed.<ref>{{LB|Hurin}}</ref>

--Morgan 09:45, 22 June 2012 (UTC)

Amroth added it, as well as a section to the Misconceptions page. With an uncheckable source:[1]. So until that source becomes checkable, I propose removing the Dorwinion section on Misconceptions too. --Ederchil ^{(Talk/Contribs/Edits)}

The section of the Misconceptions was badly written and its point is not clear. However it represents another misconception by itself (as Martinez says) which is interesting enough. I restored the Dorwinion section and rewrote it to reflect the misconception noted by Martinez. Sage 20:53, 22 June 2012 (UTC)

About the inhabitants of Dorwinion

Inspired by the recent Discord discussion, and the resulting lack of transparency:

It is my opinion that all references to the inhabitants of Dorwinion (either Men or Elves) should be removed from the main section of the article, and relegated to some other part of the article.

In my opinion all the mentions and references to Dorwinion's inhabitants should be removed to OVOTL, with the subheading "Inhabitants" - given the highly speculative nature on the subject. - IvarTheBoneless (talk) 10:20, 5 September 2023 (UTC)

OVOTL is actually for original writings by Tolkien himself, his own essays, ideas and speculations on some matter, or changing his mind about it. The essay-like speculation about the inhabitants of Dorwinion is ours and doesn't belong to that section. Generally TG doesn't accept "original research" and doesn't provide a MoS place for our own theories. When I feel like I have to include some specilation somewhere, I resolve to the Notes and References section, which seems to tolerate some speculation, but as laconically as possible so as not to resemble an essay.

Generally I think the article needs some cleanup because it relies too much on geography and events outside Dorwinion, such as the treatment of the Dorwinion barrels. Sage (talk) 11:39, 5 September 2023 (UTC)

I appreciate that you provide your reasons why you added a cleanup tag to the page on the talk page, because you did not provide any reasons for it in the edit summary when you added the cleanup tag almost two months ago. In my opinion, the flow of the barrels in the last paragraph of the history section can be deleted and it would be sufficient to that by T.A. 2941 the head wine for the feast of Thranduil came from the great gards of Dorwinion and that wine and other goods for Thranduil's halls came from far away from the kinsfolk of the Wood-elves in the south or from vineyards of Men in distant lands. The information about the flow of the barrels in the history section was inserted to provide the information for the possibility that Dorwinion was inhabited by Men, but the important parts of it have now been included in the part paragraph about the possible inhabitants of Dorwinion. I do not understand what you mean with geography, since the page does not say much about the geography of Dorwinion. --Akhôrahil (talk) 12:05, 6 September 2023 (UTC)

I see your point Sage, and on second thought, I tend to agree.

As such, I propose an "Inhabitants" subheading in the main part of the article, with a note attached to the subheading, such as this: https://tolkiengateway.net/wiki/Eriol#Winter_in_Tol_Eress%C3%ABa[note_4] - IvarTheBoneless (talk) 16:57, 5 September 2023 (UTC)

How about creating an Inhabitants section after the History section and moving the information about the possible inhabitants there? That way readers have already had the information from the history section before turning to possible inhabitants. I have read the footnote 4 on the Eriol page, but I do not understand what text you would like to place in the footnote. Tolkien did not provide much information about Dorwinion. However, as in other cases where Tolkien provided very little information, readers tend to wonder about or have questions who lived in Dorwinion or who gave Dorwinion a name in Sindarin or if Dorwinion was a part of Gondor and how long. I think it provides value for readers to provide contextual information and possibilities based on that contextual information so that readers can find possible answers on Tolkien Gateway and do not have to ask the same questions all over again on various discussion forums (such as the reddit r tolkienfans) or that the answer to such questions could be a short "Read the information on the Dorwinion page on Tolkien Gateway. I think TG could be a one-stop-shop for that. --Akhôrahil (talk) 12:05, 6 September 2023 (UTC)

I'm sorry if I worded myself poorly - by "Inhabitants" section, I meant a heading below the "History" section.

Also, adding a note to the "Inhabitants" heading was a poor idea, I have to admit. All in all, I agree with you. - IvarTheBoneless (talk) 14:02, 6 September 2023 (UTC)