Tolkien Gateway

Talk:Gorgol

Do we know for sure Gorgol was the orc-captain responsible for leading the ambush on Barahir's outlaws? In The Lays of Beleriand, "IV. The Lay of Leithian Recommenced", he is only mentioned on pages 344 and 350, once in the Lay, and the second time in a note by Christopher Tolkien. In the Lay, as best I can tell, Gorgol is only listed as an Orc slain by Beren, as the Lay is recounting many of Beren's great deeds. His second mention is a note by Christopher saying that his name appears nowhere else. In the index, he is only listed as "An Orc, called the Butcher, slain by Beren". I may just be reading the Lay wrong, but I was wondering if there is any solid evidence that Gorgol and the Orc-captain that took Barahir's ring are one and the same --Grace18 17:16, 23 January 2021 (UTC)

You're right actually. I really don't know how this could've been overlooked for so long. --IvarTheBoneless 17:32, 23 January 2021 (UTC)
About references - what version of the HoME do you have? Or rather, what version is the standard for references on this site? Because for the life of me, I can't seem to wrap my head around it - and I don't want to use page references that only serve to confuse people. Which is the very reason I refrained from using page references before. --IvarTheBoneless 18:21, 23 January 2021 (UTC)
According to the Help:References page: "The History of Middle-earth series - Include page numbers in citations from editions published by HarperCollins or Houghton Mifflin Harcourt (all of which have the same pagination)" I have an edition from Houghton Mifflin Harcourt, which I have been using, and I think its page numbers seem to correspond to the other citations I see for HoME on this wiki. But these silly page numbers can get really confusing at times. --Grace18 19:18, 23 January 2021 (UTC)

Since Gorgol and the orc-captain that slew Barahir are separate characters, should we make a separate article for the latter? (since he appears in both the Passage of the Lay of Leithian in Beren and Luthien and the revision at the end of the book before the index) (I guess one could ask the same about the captain who leads Morgoth's host in the Nirnaeth Arnoediad. --LordoftheEarth 13:58, 24 January 2021 (UTC)

Anything you can say about that orc chaptain is already told in the Massacre at Tarn Aeluin article. You could ask the same about every single unnamed character, so we should avoid making that kind of articles.--LorenzoCB 16:39, 24 January 2021 (UTC)