Talk:The Hunter (creature)

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Latest comment: 2 September 2022 by Dour1234 in topic Hunter as a concept?

Is "The Hunter" a conception of the Book of Lost Tales? Or does he appear in later writings? --Morgan 14:06, 5 March 2011 (UTC)Reply[reply]

See this. I have always interpreted the quoted paragraph as referring to Oromë, too. --Mith (Talk/Contribs/Edits) 10:49, 7 March 2011 (UTC)Reply[reply]
I'm not so sure. See what is said after the Hunter and the Rider appear:

"Now Melkor greatly hated and feared the riding of Oromë, and either he sent indeed his dark servants as riders, or he set lying whispers abroad, for the purpose that the Quendi should shun Oromë, if ever they should meet. Thus it was that when Nahar neighed and Oromë indeed came among them, some of the Quendi hid themselves, and some fled and were lost."

In my interpretation, it is pretty clear that we have two different Hunters - one evil (a minion of Melkor, or Melkor himself) and one who is Oromë. The same would be valid for the Rider.--Morgan 13:48, 7 March 2011 (UTC)Reply[reply]
But the text is entirely ambiguous: "either he sent indeed his dark servants as riders, or he set lying whispers abroad"; the point is I think the article is speculative in saying that it is a create of Morgoth. --Mith (Talk/Contribs/Edits) 15:21, 7 March 2011 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Ah, okey - I think I see your point. I'll try to rephrase the article in order to state the ambiguity.--Morgan 16:15, 7 March 2011 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Hunter as a concept?[edit source]

I do not believe it is a fact that the Hunter is a creature and the article literally has that ambiguity as well. Therefore, I believe that "The Hunter (creature)" should be moved to "Hunter (concept)" and "The Rider" should be moved to "Rider (concept)". The actual text never actually says that it is possible that Melkor came to Cuiviénen himself or that it was one sole creature (making the "The" pointless), just that he either sent literal creatures or he spread whispers. The actual text says this:

"For by after-knowledge the wise declare that Melkor, ever watchful, was first aware of the awakening of the Quendi, and sent shadows and evil spirits to spy upon them and waylay them. So it came to pass, some years ere the coming of Oromë, that if any of the Elves strayed far abroad, alone or few together, they would often vanish, and never return; and the Quendi said that the Hunter had caught them, and they were afraid. And indeed the most ancient songs of the Elves, of which echoes are remembered still in the West, tell of the shadow-shapes that walked in the hills above Cuiviénen, or would pass suddenly over the stars; and of the dark Rider upon his wild horse that pursued those that wandered to take them and devour them. Now Melkor greatly hated and feared the riding of Oromë, and either he sent indeed his dark servants as riders, or he set lying whispers abroad, for the purpose that the Quendi should shun Oromë, if ever they should meet."
Of the Coming of the Elves and the Captivity of Melkor, The Silmarillion

Dour1234 (talk) 19:38, 2 September 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]