Tolkien Gateway

Talk:Eärendil

Narfil brought up a good question about the dates of Eärendil's life.

Eärendil the Mariner (First Age 503 – c. 575; did not die but become immortal. This dating is probably incorrect, especially if the elvish characteristics were strong in him, as he travelled on many voyages and was married, and this date places him very young for an elf; see Elves for more on this matter)

I checked the books, and I think the dates are fairly solid. Eärendil was seven years old at the Fall of Gondolin (The Silmarillion, Of Tour and the Fall of Gondolin) and went into the West with Elwing after the Third Kinslaying in 575. Does anyone else have significantly different dates? --Ebakunin 23:06, 14 May 2006 (EDT)

I could not find any other dates. Either Tolkien never thought of that problem, or he assumed that the mannish characteristics were strong in both Eärendil and Elwing and everything that happened to them (the kinslaying at the Mouths of Sirion, the many voyages, etc.) happened in the space of seventy-two years, or the War of Wrath is placed at a later date than it should be. Does anyone know where those dates came from? --Narfil Palùrfalas 06:33, 15 May 2006 (EDT)

[edit] Title

Is "Eärendil the Mariner" really necessary? I propose renaming this article, "Eärendil". --Mith (Talk/Contribs/Edits) 10:03, 16 June 2010 (UTC)

It comes from the old disambiguation system. Since he is definitely the best known, he should be at "Eärendil". -- Ederchil (Talk/Contribs/Edits) 10:27, 16 June 2010 (UTC)

[edit] Turgon's Parents

Mith, I do not understand why this change keeps being undone. If it is a problem with how I fixed it in the chart, fix that I suppose, but please stop making Finwë and Indis Turgon's parents. Turgon is not Fëanor's half-brother. "The sons of Fingolfin were Fingon . . . and Turgon, lord of Gondolin; their sister was Aredhel the White." (The Silmarillion - "Of Eldamar") "The Ñoldor then became divided into separate kingships under Fingon son of Fingolfin, Turgon his younger brother . . ." (The Peoples of Middle-earth - "The Shibboleth of Fëanor") p. 344 --Elf-esteem 18:08, 6 March 2016 (UTC)

I do not understand why you keep undoing my edit. Having been here for 10 years maybe a better course of action is not to undo the edits of an administrator but to seek clarification. If you undo my edit again I will block you for edit warring. There are four reasons for undoing the edit on my part:
  1. Paternal and maternal lines should show the same levels of decent. The edit is, however, shows grandparents in the paternal line and great-grandparents in the maternal line. That is lopsided.
  2. The point of showing Finwë alongside the House of Bëor is to show the various houses that Eärendil belongs to and how he encapsulates Elves and Men. Clearly you are missing this by changing Finwë to Fingolfin.
  3. Genealogies on Tolkien Gateway generally show two levels in either direction (grandparents to grandchildren), unless to specifically show connections between salient characters. This breaks that rule, the reason that Finwë is included is, as I said, to show Eärendil's descent from the Noldor, not his great-great-grandfather specifically.
  4. The line from Finwë and Indis and Turgon is a dashed line, not a solid one. The use of a dashed line indicates that they are not parents and are forebears, as used in the maternal line for the three houses. To replace Finwë with Fingolfin in such a crude manner without changing the line is to simply get the genealogy wrong.
Summary: do not change it. --Mith (Talk/Contribs/Edits) 18:34, 6 March 2016 (UTC)
Thank you for explaining. I was ignorant of the meaning behind the vertical dashed line. I was not the only editor recently confused by this chart, but the next time, I'll simply ask for clarification. My apologies. --Elf-esteem 19:18, 6 March 2016 (UTC)